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Entrepreneurs who regret starting businesses

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Re: Entrepreneurs who regret starting businesses

#191

Post by ClumsyPilot »

nightski wrote: post #61
FlyingSnake wrote: post #8

Entrepreneurship is like one of those carnival games where you throw darts or something. Middle class kids can afford one throw. Most miss. A few hit the target and get a small prize. A very few hit the center bullseye and get a bigger prize. Rags to riches! The American Dream lives on. Rich kids can afford many throws. If they want to, they can try over and over and over again until they hit something and feel good…

The world will never be fair, I'm not even sure that is an ideal goal. The best things in my life have come from when I faced adversity, not when I was in a position of privilege. While opportunities are not always equal in quality or number, there are opportunities if you seek them. It's ironic that even though lots of things come down to luck, it's very possible to put oneself in a position that makes it feel like…

> The world will never be fair, I'm not even sure that is an ideal goal.

Which is exactly why it is important to have an accurate assessment of who is truly an entrepreneurial genius, contributing to society, and who is starting another Juicero.

Re: Entrepreneurs who regret starting businesses

#192

Post by brianwawok »

david38 wrote: post #110
FlyingSnake wrote: post #8

Entrepreneurship is like one of those carnival games where you throw darts or something. Middle class kids can afford one throw. Most miss. A few hit the target and get a small prize. A very few hit the center bullseye and get a bigger prize. Rags to riches! The American Dream lives on. Rich kids can afford many throws. If they want to, they can try over and over and over again until they hit something and feel good…

Funny how this doesn’t apply to immigrants. Being lower, middle, upper class is mostly a mindset that dictates your tolerance for risk. Immigrants of the same income level as US born have a far higher tolerance.

Isn't this self selection bias?

The most risk tolerant people are also the most likely to immigrate to a new country? The more conservative people buckle in for a life at the fruit stand or whatever they have in their home country. Maybe not a great life, but it's steady and they know it keeps them fed.

Re: Entrepreneurs who regret starting businesses

#193

Post by dumbotron »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #159
FlyingSnake wrote: post #8

Entrepreneurship is like one of those carnival games where you throw darts or something. Middle class kids can afford one throw. Most miss. A few hit the target and get a small prize. A very few hit the center bullseye and get a bigger prize. Rags to riches! The American Dream lives on. Rich kids can afford many throws. If they want to, they can try over and over and over again until they hit something and feel good…

> Rich kids can afford many throws. If they want to, they can try over and over and over again until they hit something and feel good about themselves. I see this story repeated over and and over again on the internet, but I don't really see it playing out the same way in the real world. I've seen a lot of "rich kids" try to start businesses, but then quickly realize that it's a huge amount of work and not guaranteed…

> but then quickly realize that it's a huge amount of work and not guaranteed success

The other path I've seen rich kids take is get a good enough job in sales and marketing where they're doing fine, but not as good as their parents.

Revision to the mean is real.

It's also like the three-generation rule for family businesses. The first builds it, the second maintains it, the third loses it.

Alternatively,

> My grandfather rode a camel, my father rode a camel, I drive a Mercedes, my son drives a Land Rover, his son will drive a Land Rover, but his son will ride a camel

Re: Entrepreneurs who regret starting businesses

#194

Post by ClumsyPilot »

ROTMetro wrote: post #168
jonnycomputer wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, poor people start lots of businesses, particularly immigrant families. In lots of cases those tend to be mom-and-pop operations, not things intended to become unicorns or anything, just enough to afford independence from "the man", or to give the kids an opportunity to get an education etc. (Kim's Convenience really gets at this dynamic pretty well for immigrant families). Often times too, poor people's bus…

When I lived in California there were yearly stories about homemade cheese that was getting sold and killing people and a push to remind people of this reality. The 'licensing requirements' are there for a reason, around food the reason is to prevent deaths or permanent disabilities from food poisoning.

Sure, but other requirements are stupid, like you can't open a cafe in US without having a lot of land for parking.

Also in Britain, surprisingly, you can register a takeaway anywhere, even at your home, and if you don't handle animal products, there is no requirements to meet at all. You don't have to show your hygiene rating to customers either.

"When you start a new food business or take over an existing business, you must register with your local authority.

It’s free to register, and your registration cannot be refused.

You should register at least 28 days before opening. If you’re already trading and have not registered, you need to do this as soon as possible."

Re: Entrepreneurs who regret starting businesses

#195

Post by anonymouskimmer »

boplicity wrote: post #88
nsoonhui wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Middle class kids can afford one throw. > Gotta disagree with this. As someone who grew up middle class, I was fortunate, in a lot of ways, to also learn to be prudent with money. You said you are fortunate, that actually proves rather than disproves the parent comment, no?

I don't understand your logic. I was middle class, and could afford more than one throw. The assumption in the OP was that a middle class kid can only afford one throw, which wasn't true, in my case. I was fortunate, because I knew better than to "throw" all of my money at an opportunity, not because I wasn't middle class.

Could you have afforded more than one throw, if your first throw had missed? If it had missed so badly you figuratively hit a bystander with the dart, and now owed more than you had originally put in (microbusinesses aren't typically protected under limited liability)?

Re: Entrepreneurs who regret starting businesses

#196

Post by linguistbreaker »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #159
FlyingSnake wrote: post #8

Entrepreneurship is like one of those carnival games where you throw darts or something. Middle class kids can afford one throw. Most miss. A few hit the target and get a small prize. A very few hit the center bullseye and get a bigger prize. Rags to riches! The American Dream lives on. Rich kids can afford many throws. If they want to, they can try over and over and over again until they hit something and feel good…

> Rich kids can afford many throws. If they want to, they can try over and over and over again until they hit something and feel good about themselves. I see this story repeated over and and over again on the internet, but I don't really see it playing out the same way in the real world. I've seen a lot of "rich kids" try to start businesses, but then quickly realize that it's a huge amount of work and not guaranteed…

To apply it to the dart game analogy I would argue it's just not as compelling to the rich kids. They can shoot shots if they want, but winning the stuffed animal isn't that exciting because they can have as many of those as they want without winning a dart game. The prize is much more exciting to someone who has to hit the shot to get the prize.

Re: Entrepreneurs who regret starting businesses

#197

Post by anonymouskimmer »

zdragnar wrote: post #118
pc86 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The parent comment is a cute little story that makes people feel better, without any actual facts, so there's not really anything to prove or disprove. But no, they meant that not having unlimited funds meant having to be creative or having to focus on business ideas where huge budgets were unnecessary.

The point the GP was refuting- that middle class kids only get one throw - is also not an actual fact. I'll take their assessment of their life ("lived experience" in modern parlance) over a bad analogy any day.

The point the original comment was making is that richer kids get more throws. The particular number 1 was used to highlight the magnitude of this difference. If you read it literally, then sure, it isn't true of all edge cases.

Re: Entrepreneurs who regret starting businesses

#198

Post by mattgreenrocks »

coldtea wrote: post #152
idopmstuff wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole point of the post you're responding to is that it's not a random outcome; it's an outcome driven by a strategy that is specifically useful for people with $0 in the bank and middle class connections. You're talking about $300k in the bank, but the quote you included literally says "almost no monetary investment."

It's still a random personal anecdote. And the "strategy" is an empty trivial advice. Do you think other poor people trying to start businesses don't try to do it with "almost no monetary investment"? Not only they try that, that's the only way they can afford to try anyway. Still no match for a big monetary investment, and still much much harder for them to get the same outcomes as an enterpreneur coming from privil…

This is cynicism disguising itself as wisdom.

Of course people with privilege have it easier. The whole world runs on the Matthew Effect because it's too lazy to do anything else. It isn't just or fair. Until you can fully accept that truth and do things despite that, you're stuck.

Me? As someone who rarely is fully confident about things, I'm fully confident I'll achieve some moderate success in bootstrapping if only because I have internalized the meta-belief that I can learn, adapt, persevere, and work toward the future I want, regardless of how long it takes, how successful I am, or any other external indicators. Agency is a powerful meta-belief. In that sense, I've already won, I'm just enjoying the journey and what I'm learning. And, one day I'll start cutting the strings of trading time for money.

Re: Entrepreneurs who regret starting businesses

#199

Post by anony23 »

winstonprivacy wrote: post #186
coldtea wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's still a random personal anecdote. And the "strategy" is an empty trivial advice. Do you think other poor people trying to start businesses don't try to do it with "almost no monetary investment"? Not only they try that, that's the only way they can afford to try anyway. Still no match for a big monetary investment, and still much much harder for them to get the same outcomes as an enterpreneur coming from privil…

I did something similar, so there you go... now you have three "random" anecdotes.

1000 similar random anecdotes would still be random anecdotes.

Re: Entrepreneurs who regret starting businesses

#200

Post by anonymouskimmer »

lmeyerov wrote: post #156
ta1243 wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How did you make rent while you were bootstrapping?

In the US, you can part-time consult, as programmers are paid way above the national median income. This can either be in a lucrative field, giving you more time, or in your vertical, giving you more pmf exposure. The result is living like a normal US person, though not necessarily your peer group. As most commenters note, the youth aspect is a big differentiator for the middle class. All this is hard as soon as a fa…

> In the US, you can part-time consult, as programmers are paid way above the national median income.

At some point the middle class becomes unlanded gentry.

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