Earlier quoted context omitted.
How can you judge what is harmful to me? You personally are no general metric to all mankind. In fact, what you just wrote made me suicidal now since your words hurt me very badly and triggered massive childhood trauma which I barely survived but haven't told about to anybody due to shame. Your words hurt me that much. You can't question it, since you have no idea what is happening on my side. If you try to diminish…
Of course, none of that is actually going to happen, there is no general legal basis for "Someone owes me money because they said a thing that made me sad online in a debate website I voluntarily visit in my leisure time for (one assumes) entertainment or educational value," and your explanation of why it would happen indicates massive ignorance of the legal framework relevant to this thread topic. I always find it i…
Tesla ordered to pay more than $3M to former worker in racism suit
231–240 of 290 posts
Re: Tesla ordered to pay more than $3M to former worker in racism suit
#232Earlier quoted context omitted.
Its kind of funny to claim 10+ years of fawning press coverage when the reality was that electric cars and by extension Musk go ridiculed and called dangerous and unsafe in the media. The same goes for every little issue with SpaceX. Coverage of Musk has always been mixed and in main stream media often covered negatively. Maybe in the more techy press it was mostly positive. But even then, go threw history here on HN…
Oh yeah, mainstream media really crapped on him. That's why he showed up alongside Tony Stark in Iron Man 2 and was treated like a god on an episode of Big Bang Theory. The media, for the most part, treated him gently until the Thai cave incident when people started to catch onto the idea that this "quirky genius" might be an asshole.
There was lots of high profile reporting calling Musk dumb for believing in EV and landing rockets. Media constantly using burning Tesla to show how bad EV are. The most important car show in the world, as mainstream as it gets, shit on Tesla hard. Lots of interviews with former CEOs of car companies explaining how dumb Tesla was.
Re: Tesla ordered to pay more than $3M to former worker in racism suit
#233Earlier quoted context omitted.
Perhaps you can explain the relevancy of your comment? Your comment suggests you think financial payment to an HN user with hurt feelings due to another user "not thinking much of his comment" is either good or justified. I find that hard to believe. On the other hand, decades ago the US decided that it's neither good nor justified to have a hostile work environment - something I agree with - and put laws and systems…
Your argument was that "so and so did break the law". I answered that just because something is a law, it isn't good or correct. If you don't see the relevancy, I don't know what else to tell you. I don't think people should pay other users because of their comments. On the contrary, my argument was that they shouldn't have to pay. As for hostile work environments, my opinion is that people should simply quit their j…
> Your argument was that
No, my argument was that the two situations are not meaningfully comparable. I then explained why.
Even if the law isn't good or correct, the two situations are still not meaningfully comparable, because the awarded damages requires that the law exist.
> simply quit their jobs if they are unhappy with their work environment
Ahh, sounds like a libertarian in favor of the Lochner era. I strongly disagree with what I see as a naive belief in the freedom of contract.
As you correctly point out, it means allowing racial and sexual discrimination in the workplace, with people like Oncale quitting his job with Sundowner because "I felt that if I didn't leave my job, that I would be raped or forced to have sex."
That's the freedom of contract you want.
Those were not good times to be an lowly employee. I suppose they were great times to be a manager and business owner, if you didn't care much about others.
> get a relative a position at Tesla, which seems odd if he thought the work environment was so bad
While I haven't read much about the case, it's clear you've read far less. From the judge's opinion in the first trial, at https://casetext.com/case/diaz-v-tesla-inc-4 :
] After several months at Tesla, Diaz recommended that his son (and former plaintiff) Demetric Di-Az come to work at the Tesla facility. See, e.g., Tr. at 503:8-16. He testified that he “did believe he would be in a different location” so the situation might be different for him. Id. at 503:11-19. He said that he could not recall whether he warned Di-Az about the racial harassment. Id. at 504:5-11. At one point, Diaz witnessed a white supervisor yell at Demetric that, “I can't stand all you [fucking] [N-words].” Id. at 419:18-24. Diaz said that it “broke” him. Id. at 420:1. He testified that, if he had to do it over again, he would not have recommended that Demetric work there, calling it his “biggest mistake.” Id. at 420:2-5.
Note that his son was a co-plaintiff in the lawsuit. The opinion doesn't say why it was dismissed, but the other co-plaintiff settled the case with Telsa.
Re: Tesla ordered to pay more than $3M to former worker in racism suit
#234Earlier quoted context omitted.
Totally agree. They're the law right now, and if you're looking to change that, there is a process to do so. I haven't heard any explanation of how removing them would improve America other than "it would take us back to how things were before, which was better," which is a non-starter. ...And you will be fought every step of the way, as the people who got the laws first passed were fought every step of the way. Of c…
The explanation is simple: freedom. People forget that when they curb the freedom of their employers, they also curb their own freedoms at the same time. They make sure that they can never escape from the hamster wheel. Of course most people are happy as long as other people are not better off than they themselves, so being stuck in the hamster wheel doesn't bother them that much. More freedom also means more potenti…
Freedom to what, in this context?
> If businesses have to compete, they'll try to make things as nice as possible for the workers.
This is the "capitalism will solve it" argument which proved so untrue we passed the Civil Rights Act and the Equal Employment Act. It turns out that, no, even when it's economically obvious that catering to a minority population would be valuable, you can have 100% of a town refusing to do so because racism is more important to them than money. That creates entire regions of the country that are no-go zones if your skin color is wrong, and we decided that's not acceptable.
> There is no reason that by abandoning some law from the 50 years ago, the economy would fall back to the state of the 80ies.
I'm not concerned about what the economy would do; I'm concerned about whether it would be harder to keep a job free of daily torment if you're the wrong skin color than it is now. My mistake; the law in question isn't 50 years old, it's a 1970s law.
> I'm too lazy to look it up, but I keep hearing that in the old days, people could afford to buy houses and feed a family on a single salary.
If you can find some evidence that the passage of the ERA modified that, feel free to present it. But I'm pretty sure to explain why that changed, you're looking for Reagan-era deregulation (and the economic shift from a manufacturing economy, where unions were strong, to a service economy, where few unions existed).
> You have never heard an explanation because you have never looked for it or listened to one, not because none exist.
Interesting and unsupported hypothesis. But I don't expect you to bring me anything new because you've already declared you're "too lazy to look it up," so I think this conversation thread has ended.
Re: Tesla ordered to pay more than $3M to former worker in racism suit
#235Earlier quoted context omitted.
That was just one search result. Again, I recommend doing one's own research. There's a lot to find. https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2022/04/elon-musk-twitter-te...
The usual list. He clearly isn't a leftist and it angers a lot of people very much that he doesn't automatically follow the leftist commands. Doesn't make him evil or a liar. And for example making a prediction that turns out wrong also isn't a lie. It is just an opinion.
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/02/tesla-shareholde...
Re: Tesla ordered to pay more than $3M to former worker in racism suit
#236Earlier quoted context omitted.
Totally agree. They're the law right now, and if you're looking to change that, there is a process to do so. I haven't heard any explanation of how removing them would improve America other than "it would take us back to how things were before, which was better," which is a non-starter. ...And you will be fought every step of the way, as the people who got the laws first passed were fought every step of the way. Of c…
The explanation is simple: freedom. People forget that when they curb the freedom of their employers, they also curb their own freedoms at the same time. They make sure that they can never escape from the hamster wheel. Of course most people are happy as long as other people are not better off than they themselves, so being stuck in the hamster wheel doesn't bother them that much. More freedom also means more potenti…
Or do you also respect the freedom of employees to engage in collective bargaining, the freedom of employees to negotiate a closed shop with the company, the freedom to engage in solidarity and political strikes, the freedom to carry out secondary boycotts, and so on.
Most of those are prohibited by law, where 100 years ago they were legal. And they didn't require a special law to enable those powers, because they grew out of the right to quit one's job.
> If businesses have to compete, they'll try to make things as nice as possible for the workers.
Which is why businesses don't like to compete, and will form cartels and informal agreements to prevent competition.
> I'm too lazy to look it up, but I keep hearing that in the old days, people could afford to buy houses and feed a family on a single salary.
We also had a lot higher tax rate on the wealth. And stronger union power. If you're going to lazily cherry pick history, then there are a lot of cherries to pick from.
Re: Tesla ordered to pay more than $3M to former worker in racism suit
#237Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The race of Workman seems to bear no relation to the story itself, in a story about racism you think the person's race bear no relation to the story itself?
By mentioning skin color in that sentence they seem to be implying it is connected to why she left the company. But they don't present any evidence of this, so why mention it?
Workman claimed to have left Tesla in a better position than when she'd joined, which while vague, doesn't to me suggest that she left because it was an inherently racist environment.
Re: Tesla ordered to pay more than $3M to former worker in racism suit
#238> [Former Tesla VP] Capers Workman, who is Black, has since left Tesla. Without commenting on the story or the case itself, I have to say that from a purely journalistic perspective, it is very weird to be calling out the race(s) of people related to a story when it’s not central or key to the reporting. The race of Workman seems to bear no relation to the story itself, so why the callout?
> The race of Workman seems to bear no relation to the story itself, so why the callout? I imagine the relation and relevance are apparent from the title of the article and submission: "Tesla ordered to pay more than $3M to former worker in racism suit "
She seems to have been involved in the suit insofar as she claimed she was in the courtroom during the trial, but beyond that, it's not clear to me why her race is worth specifically remarking upon.
Re: Tesla ordered to pay more than $3M to former worker in racism suit
#239Earlier quoted context omitted.
People love to hate on Musk. What I find bizzare is that 15 years ago it was NickelBack and Justin Beiber. Nowaday it's Bezos/Musk. Not sure if I just don't live in the same circle since I'm twice as old or Tech Bros are the new pop stars.
It's the Reddit hive mind mentality. Doesn't start entirely organic but it ends up being nearly 100% organic hate for certain topics. Useful idiots start parroting hit campaigns and it becomes "common knowledge" for them which they repeat whenever the topic comes up, creating more useful idiots. See any "controversial" topic here. Eich/Brave, Elon/Tesla, Facebook/React. It's all the same talking points, some being ye…
Re: Tesla ordered to pay more than $3M to former worker in racism suit
#240Earlier quoted context omitted.
As cousin comment points out, these were the days of styrofoam cups. They are far more efficient heat insulators than today’s standard paper cups. Typically people do not drink coffee at boiling temperature, for the reason that it would burn their mouths and tongues if they did. Perhaps instead of blaming the victim, you might try to sympathize. Third degree burns to the genitals would be life-destroying.
Well these are well known facts to any kid who is beyond first experience with styrofoam cups, heck apart from appalling chemistry being leaked into drink, I do actually prefer cups that keep temperature longer when ordering drinks. That's the whole purpose if styrofoam here. Heck, there is whole business around thermal mugs for exactly this purpose. Same would be valid for standard tea - you start with cca 100C and…
[1] https://letsdrinktea.com/what-is-the-right-temperature-for-d...