Google workers in London stage walkout over job cuts • Hacker News Board

Re: Google workers in London stage walkout over job cuts

#51

Post by theGnuMe » Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 1:33 PM UTC

gruez wrote: post #41

UncleMeat wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't negative feedback. It is an organized process established in the UK for handling layoffs. The UK workers didn't just say "don't fire us." They offered a ton of different options that, based on actual data, would have produced the same savings as the proposed layoffs. These included things like voluntary layoffs. All of these proposals were rejected. It sucks to have a corporation say "okay we'll have a discu…

>The UK workers didn't just say "don't fire us." They offered a ton of different options that, based on actual data, would have produced the same savings as the proposed layoffs. These included things like voluntary layoffs. All of these proposals were rejected. What were the specific list of proposals? The only one you mentioned (voluntary layoffs) is a bad idea because it leads the most talented people to leave.

>the most talented people to leave.

They might leave anyway...?

Re: Google workers in London stage walkout over job cuts

#52

Post by Eumenes » Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 1:33 PM UTC

stuaxo wrote: post #27

Eumenes wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Instead of 'walking out', how about they get a new job? Thats the ultimate form of protest. Google employees have been told for years that they are the smartest people in the world. The puff pieces on Business Insider and major news outlets saying its harder to get a job at NASA or get accepted into MIT have really inflated these peoples egos. Lots of normal and low ego people at Google, but the place certainly radia…

This is a ridiculous thing to say when the market will be saturated since all companies are letting people go. They are walking out because unlike the US there is a process to this, the company is supposed to listen when it's employees make alternative suggestions to save costs.

There are 1000s of open jobs. Working at G00g isn't a human right.

Re: Google workers in London stage walkout over job cuts

#53

Post by dboreham » Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 1:33 PM UTC

stuaxo wrote: post #31

Memories of working for Glu London after they got taken over by EA. We had the consultation process, of course it was a foregone conclusion. As others mentioned, in the UK (for now) you eliminate roles, not people - this means you can't just shift a role to another cheaper country. I was training someone to do exactly my job in China, but it somehow wasn't the same role. The team I was in wasn't treated as badly as s…

> you eliminate roles, not people

Just to calibrate, this is also the case in the US. Although most of the time an employee can be fired/laid off for any reason or no reason, employers generally want to present layoffs as "the role has gone" for contract and employment law reasons.

Re: Google workers in London stage walkout over job cuts

#54

Post by pjc50 » Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 1:33 PM UTC

papercrane wrote: post #17

iandanforth wrote: post #7

The article doesn't mention any specific concerns. Anyone have more info?

The union that organized the protest have a press release: https://www.unitetheunion.org/news-events/news/2023/april/go... It seems the primary complaint is that Google is having one-on-one meetings and not allowing employees to have a union representative with them, or any support person at all unless they have a doctors note. There's other complaints as well around how the company is handling reimbursement of legal…

This should be higher up since it has vital context.

Re: Google workers in London stage walkout over job cuts

#55

Post by ilikehurdles » Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 1:34 PM UTC

danpalmer wrote: post #18

nonethewiser wrote: post #12

These people seem out of touch. > "It has been difficult for those involved. We have a redundancy process for a reason, so that employees can make their voice heard," they said. "But it feels as if our concerns have fallen on deaf ears." They’re doing layoffs. In what scenario does negative feedback from employees change the minds of management? “Oh shit we didn’t know this negatively impacted you all. My bad.”

There have been several layers to the criticism. The first is roughly why does a company with many billions in the bank need to lay off anyone. However, assuming that layoffs do need to happen, there has been a lot more criticism of how they were conducted. In the UK there is, in summary, a right to a fair process – where _roles_ are eliminated, not _people_. That when there aren't enough roles for the people left, t…

You’re right. This should be a teaching moment for innovative tech companies, to avoid growing a physical presence in most of Europe as much as possible. These employees will rarely be a source of innovation or high performance for the company. And contrary to reason, all the advanced social benefits somehow end up being a vine strangling your ability to compete than the ideal that frees you from worrying about basic needs in pursuit of higher goals.

Re: Google workers in London stage walkout over job cuts

#56

Post by wffurr » Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 1:34 PM UTC

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #3

reisender wrote: post #2

That is their right, of course. Could this be a sign that it is tough in the SWE job market at the moment?! Usually moving on from Google would have been a non-issue to find a new job.

>Could this be a sign that it is tough in the SWE job market at the moment?! No. There's plenty of companies hiring everywhere. SWEs will not be unemployed. It's probably tough only if you expect to still make post-pandemic boom Google TC and perks at Google WLB. Which is why it's wise to avoid lifestyle inflation. If you ever land a lucrative job during a boom, don't expect it to last forever and start buying Ferrar…

Great advice but tough when the real estate market near the Google offices are completely insane.

Re: Google workers in London stage walkout over job cuts

#57

Post by throwaw12 » Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 1:34 PM UTC

nonethewiser wrote: post #12

These people seem out of touch. > "It has been difficult for those involved. We have a redundancy process for a reason, so that employees can make their voice heard," they said. "But it feels as if our concerns have fallen on deaf ears." They’re doing layoffs. In what scenario does negative feedback from employees change the minds of management? “Oh shit we didn’t know this negatively impacted you all. My bad.”

> These people seem out of touch.

Why? This is basic capitalism, every party cares about their interests. On one side you have companies laying off people to increase profits (some of them have billions in their account), on the other side people walking out to prevent future scenarios for their own interest

> In what scenario does negative feedback from employees change the minds of management? “Oh shit we didn’t know this negatively impacted you all. My bad.”

Imagine a scenario where everyone walks out from that company, would it change the mind of management?

Re: Google workers in London stage walkout over job cuts

#58

Post by lotsofpulp » Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 1:35 PM UTC

newswasboring wrote: post #49

version_five wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The first is roughly why does a company with many billions in the bank need to lay off anyone. This shows an utter misunderstanding of how businesses or finances of any kind work and would completely discredit anyone who tried to use it as an argument.

Can you elaborate on your statement for dummies? (Only if your argument isn't companies exist only to maximize profit, that one I understand and reject).

Does it matter what you accept or reject? The business’s owners determine the goals of the business.

Re: Google workers in London stage walkout over job cuts

#59

Post by pjc50 » Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 1:35 PM UTC

ilikehurdles wrote: post #55

danpalmer wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There have been several layers to the criticism. The first is roughly why does a company with many billions in the bank need to lay off anyone. However, assuming that layoffs do need to happen, there has been a lot more criticism of how they were conducted. In the UK there is, in summary, a right to a fair process – where _roles_ are eliminated, not _people_. That when there aren't enough roles for the people left, t…

You’re right. This should be a teaching moment for innovative tech companies, to avoid growing a physical presence in most of Europe as much as possible. These employees will rarely be a source of innovation or high performance for the company. And contrary to reason, all the advanced social benefits somehow end up being a vine strangling your ability to compete than the ideal that frees you from worrying about basic…

Everyone else in this thread is stating that a company has no higher goals than profit.

Re: Google workers in London stage walkout over job cuts

#60

Post by phatfish » Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 1:35 PM UTC

jsiepkes wrote: post #32

danpalmer wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There have been several layers to the criticism. The first is roughly why does a company with many billions in the bank need to lay off anyone. However, assuming that layoffs do need to happen, there has been a lot more criticism of how they were conducted. In the UK there is, in summary, a right to a fair process – where _roles_ are eliminated, not _people_. That when there aren't enough roles for the people left, t…

> In the UK there is, in summary, a right to a fair process – where _roles_ are eliminated, not _people_. That when there aren't enough roles for the people left, they are selected for layoffs in a fair way with transparency on how choices were made. So go to court? I highly doubt Google is susceptible to a walk out or a strike.

Surely companies should be expected to follow the law, rather than just saying "haha sue us, i bet you can't afford it"? Otherwise it's just an abuse of the legal system, not to say that doesn't happen of course.

However as far as i remember, in the UK you can take an employer to an employment tribunal and you receive free legal representation. Although i do remember something about the Tories trying to remove or limit the legal representation, not sure if it happened.