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If parrots can talk, why can’t monkeys?

english.elpais.com

181–190 of 221 posts

Re: If parrots can talk, why can’t monkeys?

#181
post #164
post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like that theory but the question still stands that why can parrots do it? And they're no monkey

Why can't English speakers pronounce R?

When I was younger my tongue was physically unable to produce R because it wasn't able to reach back far enough.

Re: If parrots can talk, why can’t monkeys?

#182

Parrots can't use sign language, but some great apes can(koko)[0]! Even thought monkeys don't have the vocal complexity to generate all the vowels(a,e,i,o,u) I think "great ape language" communication is more complex and nuanced than a fricking parrot repeating some phonemes after some form of stimulation. Fascinating. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koko_(gorilla)

I think you are underestimating avian intelligence. Despite the term "parroting," if I recall correctly, they're estimated to grow to about the intelligence of a 3 year old human child: > ...parrots demonstrate sophisticated problem solving abilities, they can communicate their desires, they can count, add and subtract, and remarkably, they even understand the concept of zero - https://www.forbes.com/sites/grrlscient…

It's not uncommon for people to underestimate avian intelligence, for some reason I never quite understood.

At times I wonder if it's some sort of tiny vendetta from humans themselves. You know, like how (Eurasian) magpies are considered pests, even bad omens, despite being intelligent and crafty...only because they are able to get past human-made traps. I guess a lot of humans are sore losers, heh.

But corvidae are legitimately intelligent, specially crows and magpies. The behaviors of crows in Japan are well-known, and magpies were proven to not only being able to recognize themselves in a mirror, they also used the view from the mirror as a tool (in the controlled experiment, to try to remove a sticker put on them by researchers). They can also remember humans visually (and therefore being able to hold grudges, or consider individuals "safe"), use and/or make rudimentary tools to achieve goals.

Not to mention that a bunch of birds can go literally (and visibly) insane in captivity. You can't have insanity without sanity.

Re: If parrots can talk, why can’t monkeys?

#183

A very interesting read, which describes how for ~50 years the community was lead astray by a seemingly simple oversight: studying dead animals instead of living ones! >Charles Darwin theorized that monkeys had the vocal anatomy needed for speech, but lacked the necessary neural mechanisms. >This was the most popular hypothesis until 1969 [when] Lieberman studied the vocal anatomy of a monkey corpse and concluded tha…

Human exceptionalism has poisoned so many studies. My pet-theory why primates do not vocalize is that the neural difference is not even that cemented, it has to be some difference at the language acquiring stage as babys and children, were one human pattern matching center for sound fires constantly, acquiring the language "keys" and theirs dont. And it all cascades from there. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_…

> Human exceptionalism has poisoned so many studies.

…then goes on to describe a human exception.

Re: If parrots can talk, why can’t monkeys?

#184
post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We've been building tech to translate dog barks to something meaningful for us to understand. Can most dog owners not already understand or differentiate their dogs' barks? I can tell from the quality and context of my dog's barks, whether he - wants something (food, water, attention) - is angry - is scared - wants to play - is excited - is voicing a territorial dispute and I think most dog people can also be confi…

While maybe not very useful, it would be fun to have a real translation of dogs (and other animals). I have a lot of questions that I'd like them to answer.

In order to translate language, the animal has to be speaking language. That is, they have to be putting some sort of emotion or indicator into their vocalizations that would be able to be decoded in the first place.

There's a channel on YouTube called BilliSpeaks where someone trained their cat to be able to press buttons to speak. The cat can answer questions, communicate feelings and even have conversations with the help of their translator, but only because they were trained on how to use it.

Re: If parrots can talk, why can’t monkeys?

#185
post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.tiktok.com/@maxthehussky/video/71506133065275179... You are welcome.

Remove the text and the man's voice and I doubt you can actually understand what it says.

"Al-va-ro" and specially "Ma-no-lo" are perfectly clear to my ears (I'm spanish).

Re: If parrots can talk, why can’t monkeys?

#186

We've been building tech to translate dog barks to something meaningful for us to understand. A few things we observed: 1. Dogs are more communicative once they believe you are correctly responsive to their vocalizations 2. Their barks are more differentiated over time and they start to introduce new types of vocalizations or sequences of vocalizations 3. Dogs don't have a structured vocal language as it starts of sl…

Can't we just train an LLM with lots of recorded sound of whale song then let it produce the most probable whale song response given a context?

Then we can just ask the LLM to translate the same whale song to english.

(I would dismiss trying this with dogs as in my experience they communication channels revolve more around touch and smells than barking)

Re: If parrots can talk, why can’t monkeys?

#187
On the other side: Parrots cannot recognize themselves in a mirror https://talkieparrot.com/behavior/can-parrots-recognize-them..., while monkeys can https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_test . I consider the mirror test a better test for a higher form of intelligence than simply being able to simulate talking. So the real question nowadays would be: Can GPT-4 pass the mirror test? Can it detect it‘s own output, if you echo it back to it?

Re: If parrots can talk, why can’t monkeys?

#188
post #178
post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can't English speakers pronounce R?

I don't see how this is relevant or even correct. English speakers certainly can pronounce R.

One sort of R, sure. But native English speakers often have trouble with the "voiced alveolar trill" R which is present in many other European languages, unless they speak one of the less common English dialects where it is used.

Re: If parrots can talk, why can’t monkeys?

#189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would not be surprised if cats actually are capable of communication, but don't because they feel superior.

They do communicate, usually in the form of yelling to indicate they want food, pettig, to be let outside or let back in. That's err... all the communication they need, the rest of the time they sleep.

"Hey human, why should I make all of that effort to make myself understood, when you've got that overgrown brain of yours?"

Re: If parrots can talk, why can’t monkeys?

#190
post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remove the text and the man's voice and I doubt you can actually understand what it says.

"Al-va-ro" and specially "Ma-no-lo" are perfectly clear to my ears (I'm spanish).

You're biased because you already know what it's supposed to be saying. The brain really likes to make us hear the sound it knows it's supposed to hear.
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