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If parrots can talk, why can’t monkeys?

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Re: If parrots can talk, why can’t monkeys?

#161

Post by andirk »

aaronbrethorst wrote: post #152
eyelidlessness wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My chihuahua-pit mix has such a range I often describe it as “singing the songs of her people”. Anyway, what qualifies as speech is very subjective and generally anthropomorphic. I understand what my pup is saying almost all of the time, which wouldn’t qualify it as talking by most standards but it’s plain as day to me.

Haha, meanwhile my chihuahua-pit mix only communicates by trembling, booping, performative sneezing, huffing (as opposed to a woof), sometimes grumbling, and yelling at the mailman. Mostly trembles.

Sounds like they got a more pitbull with the singing and the howling, and you got more of the chihuahua with the shaking and huffing.

Re: If parrots can talk, why can’t monkeys?

#162

Post by andirk »

mrfinn wrote: post #125
engineer_22 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm amazed at the range of vocalizations from huskies

Came to say that. I've seen videos of huskies actually talking, in a much lesser capacity than parrots, but talking nonetheless.

That video where the husky literally says "Woof!" "Woof!"

Re: If parrots can talk, why can’t monkeys?

#163

Post by lynguist »

qikInNdOutReply wrote: post #158
osamagirl69 wrote: post #9

A very interesting read, which describes how for ~50 years the community was lead astray by a seemingly simple oversight: studying dead animals instead of living ones! >Charles Darwin theorized that monkeys had the vocal anatomy needed for speech, but lacked the necessary neural mechanisms. >This was the most popular hypothesis until 1969 [when] Lieberman studied the vocal anatomy of a monkey corpse and concluded tha…

Human exceptionalism has poisoned so many studies. My pet-theory why primates do not vocalize is that the neural difference is not even that cemented, it has to be some difference at the language acquiring stage as babys and children, were one human pattern matching center for sound fires constantly, acquiring the language "keys" and theirs dont. And it all cascades from there. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_…

20th century hubris poisoned so many studies I would rather say.

I have this example but there are literally hundreds:

You know about the 5 μm particle size limit for it to become airborne? Washing hands for protecting against aerosols? It’s parroted bad research; and wrong.

The main infection path of upper respiratory diseases is through aerosols. The medical literature says it’s through hands that are touching the mouth and the nose but this is wrong. It was shown in the 1940s that viruses can spread through aerosols and that aerosols are particles under 100 μm. Research was done on tuberculosis. Tuberculosis is caused by bacteria that must infect the deep inside parts of the lung. For that it needs an aerosol size of 5 μm. Other diseases can do with aerosols of 5-100 μm.

Now, a meme was born that only 5 μm particles can get airborne.

And this was just accepted by the Western medical canon and the WHO.

Re: If parrots can talk, why can’t monkeys?

#164

Post by timeon »

andirk wrote: post #159
qikInNdOutReply wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Human exceptionalism has poisoned so many studies. My pet-theory why primates do not vocalize is that the neural difference is not even that cemented, it has to be some difference at the language acquiring stage as babys and children, were one human pattern matching center for sound fires constantly, acquiring the language "keys" and theirs dont. And it all cascades from there. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_…

I like that theory but the question still stands that why can parrots do it? And they're no monkey

Why can't English speakers pronounce R?

Re: If parrots can talk, why can’t monkeys?

#165

Post by user070223 »

osamagirl69 wrote: post #9

A very interesting read, which describes how for ~50 years the community was lead astray by a seemingly simple oversight: studying dead animals instead of living ones! >Charles Darwin theorized that monkeys had the vocal anatomy needed for speech, but lacked the necessary neural mechanisms. >This was the most popular hypothesis until 1969 [when] Lieberman studied the vocal anatomy of a monkey corpse and concluded tha…

I'm pretty sure descended larynx is not prequisite for producing vowels. Vowels are merely overtones which occurs because the waves generated in the vocal folds(with a charachtrized fundamental frequency) travel the vocal tract in 3d, which causes destructive interference for most frequencies except those with constructive interference (overtones / formants) When humans move that tongue and lips we basically change the vocal tract shape which changes the overtones, the larynx is behind the lips and behind/in the back of the tongue anyway.

Re: If parrots can talk, why can’t monkeys?

#166

Post by Cthulhu_ »

bilsbie wrote: post #81
osamagirl69 wrote: post #9

A very interesting read, which describes how for ~50 years the community was lead astray by a seemingly simple oversight: studying dead animals instead of living ones! >Charles Darwin theorized that monkeys had the vocal anatomy needed for speech, but lacked the necessary neural mechanisms. >This was the most popular hypothesis until 1969 [when] Lieberman studied the vocal anatomy of a monkey corpse and concluded tha…

Now do dogs. Are they missing any anatomy for speech or is that also neural?

They did develop fine control in their eyebrows to appeal / communicate to humans. And cats developed mewling similar to human babies to draw their attention.

Re: If parrots can talk, why can’t monkeys?

#167

Post by thaumasiotes »

deafpolygon wrote: post #150
Talanes wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It is obviously not true. Different people tend to have differing levels of internal monologue. Mine is so constant that nearly all conscious thought filters through it, to the point that it would be very easy to mistake the monologue for the totality of consciousness. It's a theory that rings true with people who think like I do, but still assume that everyone else thinks the same way too.

And some people, like myself, have no monologue or internal dialogue. What then? I have no consciousness or intelligence?

We call people like you "philosophical zombies". ;D

Re: If parrots can talk, why can’t monkeys?

#168

Post by Cthulhu_ »

DocTomoe wrote: post #157
HlessClaudesman wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now do cats. Are they missing any anatomy for speech or is that they just don't feel like performing?

I would not be surprised if cats actually are capable of communication, but don't because they feel superior.

They do communicate, usually in the form of yelling to indicate they want food, pettig, to be let outside or let back in. That's err... all the communication they need, the rest of the time they sleep.

Re: If parrots can talk, why can’t monkeys?

#169

Post by Cthulhu_ »

eyelidlessness wrote: post #124
engineer_22 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm amazed at the range of vocalizations from huskies

My chihuahua-pit mix has such a range I often describe it as “singing the songs of her people”. Anyway, what qualifies as speech is very subjective and generally anthropomorphic. I understand what my pup is saying almost all of the time, which wouldn’t qualify it as talking by most standards but it’s plain as day to me.

We had a greyhound that was completely silent (besides the odd sigh), her communication was completely nonverbal - pawing at the door at best.

Re: If parrots can talk, why can’t monkeys?

#170

Post by paganel »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #166
bilsbie wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now do dogs. Are they missing any anatomy for speech or is that also neural?

They did develop fine control in their eyebrows to appeal / communicate to humans. And cats developed mewling similar to human babies to draw their attention.

> And cats developed mewling similar to human babies to draw their attention

So that is a "developed" trait? As in wild cats don't have it? Very interesting.

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