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Japan Breaks with U.S. Allies, Buys Russian Oil at Prices Above Cap

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Re: Japan Breaks with U.S. Allies, Buys Russian Oil at Prices Above Cap

#191

Post by 34679 »

throwaway6734 wrote: post #90
34679 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>more than any other planet on earth Take a look at the space around you. How many of the items you see were made in the US?

And? Access to food and energy is significantly more important that new consumer goods

Modern food and energy rely upon countless items manufactured in China. John Deere would not be able to continue making the tractors they currently make without Chinese components. Same goes for everything from oil tankers to highway pavers. Even the logistics side would become difficult without being able to replace cell phones and computers.

Re: Japan Breaks with U.S. Allies, Buys Russian Oil at Prices Above Cap

#192

Post by plugger »

yosito wrote: post #14
defrost wrote: post #9

In related news; backstory [1]: Australia is the biggest supplier of energy and key minerals to Japan, reflecting Australia’s position as a reliable, safe and competitive producer of raw resources. Australia provides around two-thirds of Japan’s coal, and a third of Japan’s LNG imports. Australia also provides about 60 per cent of Japan’s iron ore imports. and, just the other day [2]: The head of Japan's biggest oil…

Is your unspoken claim that Japan bought Russian gas because Australia just suddenly refused to sell gas anymore?

They're not directly related as Australia sells LNG to Japan and Japan is buying oil from Russia, but it you have a read of the ABC article linked you see the following:

>"The consequence of these well-intentioned policies will be that the increasing energy demand in our region will be met by coal and not by natural gas," Mr Ueda told MPs at private parliamentary function.

>"The result will be much higher global greenhouse gas emissions and will make net zero by 2050 an impossible task.

>"On the geopolitical front, Australia's 'quiet quitting' of the LNG business has potentially very sinister consequences.

>He said the question of who would replace Australian supply into the market was front and centre.

>"Alarmingly, the 'inconvenient truth' is most likely that Russia, China and Iran fill the void," he said.

I don't think this is coincidence, and I do believe Japan has a lot to lose from the often talked about 'energy wars' given they have no resources to rely on domestically to fill these requirements.

Re: Japan Breaks with U.S. Allies, Buys Russian Oil at Prices Above Cap

#193

Post by plugger »

defrost wrote: post #190
yosito wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, I was asking you to connect the dots because I didn't understand your comment.

Fair enough. I've been in the intelligence game (gathering data) long enough that I habitually defer connecting dots as long as possible. What is known is that Japan is facing a future energy shortage, they're addressing (some?) of that with new nuclear reactors (which take time), that Australia is making noise about keeping more of its gas reserves to itself or off the board altogether (fossil fuel aversion), and th…

> Australia is making noise about keeping more of its gas reserves to itself or off the board altogether (fossil fuel aversion), and that energy decisions take timeframes of five to ten years to swing about.

I don't think this is about not wanting to sell abroad for climatic reasons, I think it's solely down to the east coast of Australia having to buy gas at spot pricing because their entire production is sold into the gas market instead of having a percentage reserved for domestic use at lower rates, like we do out here in WA.

Re: Japan Breaks with U.S. Allies, Buys Russian Oil at Prices Above Cap

#194

Post by defrost »

plugger wrote: post #193
defrost wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair enough. I've been in the intelligence game (gathering data) long enough that I habitually defer connecting dots as long as possible. What is known is that Japan is facing a future energy shortage, they're addressing (some?) of that with new nuclear reactors (which take time), that Australia is making noise about keeping more of its gas reserves to itself or off the board altogether (fossil fuel aversion), and th…

> Australia is making noise about keeping more of its gas reserves to itself or off the board altogether (fossil fuel aversion), and that energy decisions take timeframes of five to ten years to swing about. I don't think this is about not wanting to sell abroad for climatic reasons, I think it's solely down to the east coast of Australia having to buy gas at spot pricing because their entire production is sold into…

That's a good distinction to make, like yourself I'm from WA and as native Aussies we're a bit more across the details than most of HN.

For the East coast it's all about having a cap on gas prices and a local set aside.

For outside capital companies like the Japanese gas investors, from their PoV, it's about uncertainity and reduced profits.

They want to buy in at fixed capital costs and in return have a product they can take home (home ground security) and ship about to maximise profits (especially during a war fueled energy hungry period).

With our selfish demands of local resources for local markets at local shop prices coupled with political rumblings that come wih a change of Federal party that (however feasibly) foreshadow a possible greener Australia (hmmm, right?) ... well.

That's enough to have others in the energy pool hedge their bets a little and seek diversity in sourcing, it takes a long time to get new sources and it's no fun running low on energy.

Re: Japan Breaks with U.S. Allies, Buys Russian Oil at Prices Above Cap

#195

Post by [deleted] »

EGreg wrote: post #175
adriancr wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If at first you don't succeed... You now feign agreement with the first point only to say it's because of what-about-USA... and then disagree again. All the while you're polluting the whole argument with needless arguments in the hope that something sticks or at least draws discussion somewhere else.

[flagged]

[deleted]

Re: Japan Breaks with U.S. Allies, Buys Russian Oil at Prices Above Cap

#196

Post by simonh »

yucky wrote: post #189
simonh wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was no coercion, no bribery, no extortion, they were giving advice to friendly politicians and offering support. What do you think diplomats do?

> What do you think diplomats do? Well, large parts of our diplomatic corps tend to foment and finance coup's around the world. We're pretty smart about it though, first we bring in the NGO's like The National Endowment for Democracy (and many others) which act as an outsourced part of our CIA, then we apply pressure from within. Our playbook is pretty well known by now. Or wait, how many coups do you think the US ha…

Of course the US uses coercion. There have been numerous appalling cases that are utterly deplorable, mostly during the Cold War, but we’re talking about Ukraine. They didn’t use any in Ukraine, they didn’t need to. As the overwhelming vote in the Ukrainian parliament in favour of the EU accords, and numerous elections and polls in Ukraine since demonstrated clearly.

Re: Japan Breaks with U.S. Allies, Buys Russian Oil at Prices Above Cap

#197

Post by simonh »

st4lz wrote: post #154
user3939382 wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Well, the victory in Ukraine is low cost high profit business for the US. There is unprecedented growth of oil and natural gas sales to Europe, which completely displaced Russia as the biggest supplier. The arms contracts are rising heavily, making at least half of the world's armies interested in replacing old equipment. Prices are rising as well as profits. Secondly, securing Ukraine would add up to the capitalisti…

In wars factories making guns make money selling guns. You could as well say Iran or Turku engineered the conflict to sell drones. Maybe the North Korean 152mm shell manufacturers are behind it all.

Raytheon didn’t invade Ukraine. Boeing didn’t invade Ukraine. There’s one country with one leader that invaded Ukraine, and that is where the sole responsibility lies for that decision.

He did so solely and specifically in response to the expressed democratic wishes of the Ukrainian people. That is what this war is about. You know it, I know it, the rest is just distraction.

Re: Japan Breaks with U.S. Allies, Buys Russian Oil at Prices Above Cap

#198

Post by simonh »

5040 wrote: post #119
mcphage wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> two of the more plausible candidates for the beginning of this whole thing are [...] the American invasion of Serbia Are we talking about 1999?

Yeah. Those initial airstrikes really freaked Russia out. Relations were never the same after them. NATO's first military attack really shook them.

They were shaken so much they decided to bomb and shell the living crap out over every square inch of Chechnya to get it out of their system. I'm sure blowing up some of their own apartment buildings that September helped them de-stress. I'm sorry, but the Russian government isn't a bunch of children. They're not that easily rattled.

That was long after the whole mess in Bosnia, so it's not like we hadn't seen a horrible bloody genocidal conflict that the US and European countries intervened in before.

Re: Japan Breaks with U.S. Allies, Buys Russian Oil at Prices Above Cap

#199

Post by yucky »

simonh wrote: post #196
yucky wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What do you think diplomats do? Well, large parts of our diplomatic corps tend to foment and finance coup's around the world. We're pretty smart about it though, first we bring in the NGO's like The National Endowment for Democracy (and many others) which act as an outsourced part of our CIA, then we apply pressure from within. Our playbook is pretty well known by now. Or wait, how many coups do you think the US ha…

Of course the US uses coercion. There have been numerous appalling cases that are utterly deplorable, mostly during the Cold War, but we’re talking about Ukraine. They didn’t use any in Ukraine, they didn’t need to. As the overwhelming vote in the Ukrainian parliament in favour of the EU accords, and numerous elections and polls in Ukraine since demonstrated clearly.

So which one is this an example of - not coercion or not bribery? Or not both:

https://www.wsj.com/video/opinion-joe-biden-forced-ukraine-t...

Re: Japan Breaks with U.S. Allies, Buys Russian Oil at Prices Above Cap

#200

Post by simonh »

yucky wrote: post #199
simonh wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course the US uses coercion. There have been numerous appalling cases that are utterly deplorable, mostly during the Cold War, but we’re talking about Ukraine. They didn’t use any in Ukraine, they didn’t need to. As the overwhelming vote in the Ukrainian parliament in favour of the EU accords, and numerous elections and polls in Ukraine since demonstrated clearly.

So which one is this an example of - not coercion or not bribery? Or not both: https://www.wsj.com/video/opinion-joe-biden-forced-ukraine-t...

Do you think a government donating a billion dollars in aid money to a country has a legitimate interest in fighting corruption in that country, and a responsibility to their tax payers to ensure that money is well managed?
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