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I think you would find it less amazing if you were subject to systemic discrimination.
Tesla ordered to pay more than $3M to former worker in racism suit
121–130 of 290 posts
Re: Tesla ordered to pay more than $3M to former worker in racism suit
#122[flagged]
You're using euphemistic language for rhetorical purposes. Suppose someone got bullied to the point of suicide. Is that not a big deal because it was just "words"? It's a rhetorical sleight of hand to euphemistically label it "words". Also, your choice of language puts the responsibility on the victim ("got offended") as if it's their fault that offence was taken at being discriminated against in the workplace.
Large settlements are good because otherwise there is no incentive for companies to prevent that behavior. The main point of laws and their enforcement is to deter that behavior in the first place, and small settlements do not achieve deterrence.
Re: Tesla ordered to pay more than $3M to former worker in racism suit
#123Earlier quoted context omitted.
Because no where is that kind of behavior acceptable; workplace included. Tesla’s role is to provide a safe workplace. Failure to do so deserves penalty. This is not hard to grok: worker safety is more important than the corp. Safety includes all aspects. Including mental health.
No one is saying the behavior is acceptable. I'm thinking if I were a company, I'd be pretty keen on replacing humans with AI as soon as possible.
You didn't declare it acceptable, but you certainly did engage in an absolutely breathtaking minimization of the impact of specific acts of hatred on someone subject to systemic racism their whole life as "offended by some words and a drawing."
Re: Tesla ordered to pay more than $3M to former worker in racism suit
#124[flagged]
I'll never understand the "just words" takes I hear all the time.
Everything you've ever said is "just words". Everything someone has said that has hurt you, that has caused fear in you, that evoked love and warmth has ever been " just words".
How many of those words changed your life? The "I dos", the last words, the first words, the words said in a dark alley or the words said to you pushed up against a wall.
Words tell you what someone thinks of you, what they'll do to you.
I, for example, don't think very much of your comment.
Re: Tesla ordered to pay more than $3M to former worker in racism suit
#125It's amazing how big the settlements are for discrimination lawsuits vs. other labor law violations. Wage and hour violations get a slap on the wrist. Safety violations seldom cost a company more than a few thousand dollars unless someone is killed, and even then payments rarely exceed 5 figures.
Discrimination lawsuits in the US are supposed to be torts I believe, which is what allows you to have these big settlements (think McDonalds coffee too hot, that was a tort) I would think that Safety violations may also be torts - but probably not all the time. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tort
The McDonald's coffee incident is often cited as an example of litigation and punitive damages gone mad. Some woman got scalded by her coffee? And she was awarded how much?
It's less often noted just how badly the woman was injured (third degree burns, significant amounts of skin seared off, etc.) and the details of why McDonald's was held liable (dangerous policy, not an isolated mistake).
The details are worth a read: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebeck_v._McDonald%27s_Rest...
Re: Tesla ordered to pay more than $3M to former worker in racism suit
#126Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Wage and hour violations get a slap on the wrist It's very easy to calculate financial harm, and for an individual worker, even multiplying that harm by 10x isn't going to be a "significant" amount for a large-ish company. In this random case, the company was ordered to pay the wages and then the same amount on top of that for the damage caused[1], so it was 2x total. > Safety violations seldom cost a company more…
> Anyway, what's your point? I'm not Animats, but there might be a suggestion that being discriminated against is not actually worse than being killed.
> there might be a suggestion that being discriminated against is not actually worse than being killed
He very specifically said unless someone is killed.
The awards for deaths are absolutely astronomical. They have often reached into tens of millions all the way up to billions[1].
There's also a lot of historical precedent for racism leading to workplace deaths.
1. https://www.enjuris.com/blog/resources/biggest-wrongful-deat...
Re: Tesla ordered to pay more than $3M to former worker in racism suit
#127Earlier quoted context omitted.
Looks like being discriminated against in this case is roughly worth the same as having a limb cutoff according to one law firm. I don't want to be presumptuous and say that feeling discrimination on the job is better than having your arm cut off though, maybe it does feel worse. https://www.losangelespersonalinjurylawyers.co/average-case-...
Values for work-related injuries are far lower: [1] [1] https://www.yourlawyer.com/library/workers-compensation-body...
These are workers' comp, not lawsuits. They have nothing to do with this thread.
Re: Tesla ordered to pay more than $3M to former worker in racism suit
#128Earlier quoted context omitted.
Racism created so many problems in the US, including a devastating civil war with 2M casualties, that what seems like an over-reaction is understandable. It's the "nuke it from the orbit" option. Yes, nuking things from the orbit does have downsides, if you ask me. But if this imperfect tool is something that reliably prevents a new crop of Jim Crow laws, I can tolerate some fallout. (If you think that people are now…
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It shouldn't even be a US State. Stolen land that should be returned.
Re: Tesla ordered to pay more than $3M to former worker in racism suit
#129Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Anyway, what's your point? I'm not Animats, but there might be a suggestion that being discriminated against is not actually worse than being killed.
Looks like being discriminated against in this case is roughly worth the same as having a limb cutoff according to one law firm. I don't want to be presumptuous and say that feeling discrimination on the job is better than having your arm cut off though, maybe it does feel worse. https://www.losangelespersonalinjurylawyers.co/average-case-...
Your own link gives lots of examples where compensation was much greater than $3M depending on the severity of the injury.
$8,000,000 Verdict: The plaintiff lost three fingers and underwent numerous surgeries to save her hand. A conveyor belt was detected to have a defect and caught her hand in it, leading to extremely debilitating damages.
$150,000 Verdict: While he was operating machinery in a school, the plaintiff severed the tip of his finger. Thanks to the efforts of medical professionals, the finger was reattached; when he pursued legal action, he was found partially at fault and had a 35% reduction of his verdict.
$1,200,000 Settlement: A young boy, age 11, suffered partial leg amputations after being struck by a train. He was playing on the railroad tracks and was caught. A Minneapolis jury was set to hear the case, but a settlement was reached beforehand.
$400,000 Settlement: A 45-year-old man in Minnesota was working on a tri-roller machine at a bakery when the rollers snatched his glove. His arm was pulled into the machine, causing irreparable damages that resulted in amputation below his elbow.
$325,000 Verdict: A man, nearly 40 years old, suffered an amputation after the cast he wore on his broken arm was applied too tightly, causing ischemia.
$5,000,000 Settlement: A man was struck by a semi-truck while on his motor bike. The crash caused severe damages to his leg. Despite numerous surgeries, the leg could not be adequately fixed, and was amputated below the knee.
Re: Tesla ordered to pay more than $3M to former worker in racism suit
#130Earlier quoted context omitted.
Discrimination lawsuits in the US are supposed to be torts I believe, which is what allows you to have these big settlements (think McDonalds coffee too hot, that was a tort) I would think that Safety violations may also be torts - but probably not all the time. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tort
The McDonald's coffee incident is often cited as an example of litigation and punitive damages gone mad. Some woman got scalded by her coffee? And she was awarded how much? It's less often noted just how badly the woman was injured (third degree burns, significant amounts of skin seared off, etc.) and the details of why McDonald's was held liable (dangerous policy, not an isolated mistake). The details are worth a re…
I certainly agree that McDonald's got what it deserved, hope you don't think I was implying otherwise.
on edit: actually I think the ability to sue for torts is one of the pluses of the American system, and is definitely better than a lot of other supposedly fairer countries.