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France convicts Google Maps for unfair competition

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Re: France convicts Google Maps for unfair competition

#71

Post by demallien »

aprescott wrote: post #15

As the comments on the article point out, this seems to be about the enterprise maps service to businesses which ordinarily is at a cost. From Le Monde[1]: "As such, it considered that Google Maps distorted the rules of free competition by providing the same service to businesses while it undergoes costs to design the product." ["A ce titre, elle considérait que l'application Google Maps faussait les règles de la con…

I just wanted to change your translation (Google translate?) a bit. I think this is truer to the original French:

Hence they (Bottin Cartographes) considered that the Google Maps application broke competition rules by offering the same service to businesses for free, even though Google itself incurred costs to build the product."

Re: France convicts Google Maps for unfair competition

#74

Post by Tichy »

freehunter wrote: post #61
Tichy wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what if I have a company that sells information and Wikipedia ruins my business by offering information for free? Edit: even if Wikipedia is non-profit, what if their secret main sponsor is some news outlet, for example?

That doesn't matter. There is no law nor any court ruling even in France against providing free services. Here is the entire key to the issue: >Bottin Cartographes argued that Google was only planning to give away the service for free until all the competitors had been driven out of business and then they would start charging. It's not about free services, it's about willfully plotting to gain marketshare via free se…

How did they prove that Google was plotting that scheme?

Re: France convicts Google Maps for unfair competition

#75

Post by oh_sigh »

dlikhten wrote: post #5

Reporter totally misses the point. The point is that google provided google maps for free. That is great. except when all other competition dies (because who can compete with a better, freer version of your product?) google starts charging pretty rediculous rates. That move in itself is what contributed to the ruling. OSM is free for everyone. It is a wiki. If OSM destroys google, bing, etc, and then decides to go on…

Why couldn't competition spring up once google starts charging ridiculous rates? It's not as if competition dies forever. It dies until someone else figures out how to do it better.

Re: France convicts Google Maps for unfair competition

#76

Post by adamio »

Doesn't this assume users have no choice? If a better map product came along, couldn't they also make it free (to compete with Google's future raised prices) and then when Google is bankrupt, raise the price? Isn't this totally ignoring the business model and claiming a monopoly on price alone? What's the barrier to entry? Is Google blocking competing map provider's search results?

Re: France convicts Google Maps for unfair competition

#77

Post by oh_sigh »

kolinko wrote: post #48
ekianjo wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, this kind of law does not make any sense. In the case of carrefour, since they are charging such high prices nowadays, what prevents a bunch of farmers to associate themselves and open their own mall to sell cheaper and regain market share? Nothing, absolutely nothing. They just can't be bothered. Lack of competition is not only about big brands killing small ones. It's also part of the culture. It's been a…

Isn't this what game theory is about? Smaller competitors won't open up, because even if Carrefour has high prices, the chain can lower prices any time to wipe out the competitors again. So, the monopolist can have arbitrarily high prices because nobody will invest in opening shops. This is one of the situations in which free market fails to deliver the optimal (for consumers) solution.

The free market doesn't fail in this case. Consumers fail. Just like when there is traffic on a highway, it isn't networking theory that fails, it is drivers.

Consumers choose to shop at Carrefour, and fill their coffers with money to smash smaller chains. Maybe if consumers were smarter, or cared a little bit more, they wouldn't shop there? I can only blame ignorant consumers and not carrefour or the free market in general.

Even if 10% of consumers thought that Carrefour was onerous and damaging to their society, and were willing to pay slightly higher prices - they would provide enough demand for other smaller shops to open.

But they don't, because people don't want to bother spending 50 cents more on gas, and paying 5€ more on their 70€ purchase.

Re: France convicts Google Maps for unfair competition

#78

Post by toyg »

kolinko wrote: post #48
ekianjo wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, this kind of law does not make any sense. In the case of carrefour, since they are charging such high prices nowadays, what prevents a bunch of farmers to associate themselves and open their own mall to sell cheaper and regain market share? Nothing, absolutely nothing. They just can't be bothered. Lack of competition is not only about big brands killing small ones. It's also part of the culture. It's been a…

Isn't this what game theory is about? Smaller competitors won't open up, because even if Carrefour has high prices, the chain can lower prices any time to wipe out the competitors again. So, the monopolist can have arbitrarily high prices because nobody will invest in opening shops. This is one of the situations in which free market fails to deliver the optimal (for consumers) solution.

And the response to this is... to force the monopolist to keep its prices unnaturally high, hence raking in even more profit and making it even more likely that competition will be squashed, and screwing consumers?

Because that's what this judge is arguing, basically: that Google and other mapping companies should "cartel up" and just be fair among themselves, smaller companies (and progress) be damned.

Re: France convicts Google Maps for unfair competition

#79

Post by kenrik »

But if Google actually "killed" all the competition and started charging what would prevent someone else from coming in and undercutting Google? In technology if there is an opening there is always someone waiting to fill it (I know Apple is interested in the space). Also there will always be a need for low price and high price options (iPad / Kindle Fire) If what you're offering is worth the price that you charge then you should not have an issue finding customers.

P.S. I would be more surprised if this were a US Court.

Re: France convicts Google Maps for unfair competition

#80

Post by toyg »

aprescott wrote: post #15

As the comments on the article point out, this seems to be about the enterprise maps service to businesses which ordinarily is at a cost. From Le Monde[1]: "As such, it considered that Google Maps distorted the rules of free competition by providing the same service to businesses while it undergoes costs to design the product." ["A ce titre, elle considérait que l'application Google Maps faussait les règles de la con…

From what I understand, when the lawsuit started, the service was free.
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