Xanax and Adderall Access Is Being Blocked by Secret Drug Limits • Hacker News Board

Re: Xanax and Adderall Access Is Being Blocked by Secret Drug Limits

#21

Post by caslon » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 10:20 PM UTC

eindiran wrote: post #17

fzzzy wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good comment, but Adderall is Amphetamine, not Methamphetamine. Big difference.

Methamphetamine is a schedule 2 drug and prescribed in the US, though significantly more rarely than amphetamine. Is there a difference between oral consumption of amphetamine and methamphetamine dosed out in correct proportion to the salts in question? Maybe, but certainly not that "big" of a difference.

It's actually a big difference. One feels downright euphoric, according to Desoxyn users. The other is a boring study drug.

https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/12/28/adderall-risks-much-mo...

Re: Xanax and Adderall Access Is Being Blocked by Secret Drug Limits

#22

Post by IIAOPSW » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 10:21 PM UTC

westmeal wrote: post #8

OkayPhysicist wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that to be expected, though? There's plenty of people who wouldn't subject themselves to the ordeal of going to the doctors to pursue a diagnosis of an untreatable disease. You just suffer through it. In contrast, if there's a known treatment for it, then the reward (not having ADD symptoms) dramatically outweighs the cost (of drudging through doctors appointments). I'd bet the number of surgeries significantly…

I suppose, but anecdotally I was told I have ADD by my family physician and was prescribed various stimulants including adderall and ritalin. I only stopped and got on a patch based medication when I was losing weight because of the amphetamines destroying my appetite and I was already a skinny bastard. The only difference I felt on the medication is that I was methed up. This could have been a misdiagnosis but the t…

>Looking back it seemed incredibly easy and 'hand wavy' for the doc to just shut up the parent and schools and write up a prescription to 'solve the problem'

Exactly. The diagnosis is a tool for the system to give it a veneer of scientific legitimacy. There is no truth only power. In living memory, being gay was a diagnoseable disorder. In some countries political dissidents would be deemed insane and committed to institutions. Psychiatrists used to hand out lobotomies and electric shocks to anyone they felt like.

Re: Xanax and Adderall Access Is Being Blocked by Secret Drug Limits

#23

Post by gnicholas » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 10:22 PM UTC

I've wondered if Adderall could be popular in part because it can lead to weight loss. This wouldn't be why people would go on the medication, but why they would hesitate going off it. I know some people continued smoking after they wanted to stop because they feared gaining weight when they did.

Re: Xanax and Adderall Access Is Being Blocked by Secret Drug Limits

#24

Post by giraffe_lady » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 10:22 PM UTC

westmeal wrote: post #8

OkayPhysicist wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that to be expected, though? There's plenty of people who wouldn't subject themselves to the ordeal of going to the doctors to pursue a diagnosis of an untreatable disease. You just suffer through it. In contrast, if there's a known treatment for it, then the reward (not having ADD symptoms) dramatically outweighs the cost (of drudging through doctors appointments). I'd bet the number of surgeries significantly…

I suppose, but anecdotally I was told I have ADD by my family physician and was prescribed various stimulants including adderall and ritalin. I only stopped and got on a patch based medication when I was losing weight because of the amphetamines destroying my appetite and I was already a skinny bastard. The only difference I felt on the medication is that I was methed up. This could have been a misdiagnosis but the t…

The biggest flaw in this line of reasoning is that these drugs aren't inherently calming or causing docility. They are pretty powerful stimulants!

It's quite obvious when a troublesome kid has been misdiagnosed: they act as you would expect a child on stimulants to act. The behavior changes are mostly only useful if the child does have adhd. A non-adhd problem child on amphetamines is a powerful source of chaos.

Re: Xanax and Adderall Access Is Being Blocked by Secret Drug Limits

#25

Post by showdeddd » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 10:23 PM UTC

junofan wrote: post #20

Overtonwindow wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You underestimate college students because that is exactly what we did in college. People went to their doctor, faked hyperactivity, and were given adderall which they then sold to other students. I'm sure your ADD is horrible but try telling someone taking these drugs to stop. They won't. They depend on it too much and it's become part of their personality, and their belief that it is what they need. Just. Like. Oxy…

ADHD is an ADA-recognized disability. I doubt you’d support secret limits on mobility scooter orders because college kids sometimes steal golf carts. Why is this different?

Because Adderall is 100% pure speed. A handful of Adderalls is more fun than a bag of cocaine (which is going to be more like 5% purity and adulterated with god knows what).

Re: Xanax and Adderall Access Is Being Blocked by Secret Drug Limits

#26

Post by OkayPhysicist » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 10:27 PM UTC

westmeal wrote: post #8

OkayPhysicist wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that to be expected, though? There's plenty of people who wouldn't subject themselves to the ordeal of going to the doctors to pursue a diagnosis of an untreatable disease. You just suffer through it. In contrast, if there's a known treatment for it, then the reward (not having ADD symptoms) dramatically outweighs the cost (of drudging through doctors appointments). I'd bet the number of surgeries significantly…

I suppose, but anecdotally I was told I have ADD by my family physician and was prescribed various stimulants including adderall and ritalin. I only stopped and got on a patch based medication when I was losing weight because of the amphetamines destroying my appetite and I was already a skinny bastard. The only difference I felt on the medication is that I was methed up. This could have been a misdiagnosis but the t…

> Should we make children take meth because they don't like the system they're in?

The flip side of this is that being unable to thrive in the system they're in is effectively dooming them to a substandard, more difficult life. If you think the system is broken, fix it, but ripping off the bandage before you have any sutures on hand is the opposite of a solution.

If I had started on medication younger, I undoubtedly would have done better in high school. If I had done better in high school, I would have gone to a better college, better college, better job etc. On the flip side, had I not gotten medicated in college, I very well could have flunked out.

So, yeah, it's a fucked up that the system doesn't accommodate for people slightly outside neurotypical-ness, requiring stimulant use to thrive, just like it's fucked up that it doesn't accommodate deaf people, making cochlear implants an extremely valuable treatment. But so long as that system is in place, restricting access to harm mitigation from that system because the system is fucked is unquestionably wrong.

Re: Xanax and Adderall Access Is Being Blocked by Secret Drug Limits

#27

Post by kevviiinn » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 10:27 PM UTC

runnerup wrote: post #18

slapshot wrote: post #11

After the pharmacies got sued for filling opiate prescriptions (which were written by abusive doctors, but the pharmacies are the ones who got sued)[1], is it any surprise that Xanax and Adderall are being limited? If pharmacies are at risk for filling prescriptions that are more complex than antibiotics, the end result is that they make it harder to fill them. [1] https://www.fiercehealthcare.com/finance/federal-jur…

> is it any surprise that Xanax and Adderall are being limited? That depends on who is doing the limiting — if the pharmacy corporations are self-limiting then I would understand they are limiting their potential exposure/liability to whatever risk level they are comfortable with. I’ll still be able to find my necessary drugs at another chain which doesn’t limit. If the government is doing the limiting, then yes, tha…

The DEA needs to justify their existence somehow

Re: Xanax and Adderall Access Is Being Blocked by Secret Drug Limits

#28

Post by kevviiinn » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 10:29 PM UTC

showdeddd wrote: post #25

junofan wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ADHD is an ADA-recognized disability. I doubt you’d support secret limits on mobility scooter orders because college kids sometimes steal golf carts. Why is this different?

Because Adderall is 100% pure speed. A handful of Adderalls is more fun than a bag of cocaine (which is going to be more like 5% purity and adulterated with god knows what).

Mobility scooters can also be abused for a good time

Re: Xanax and Adderall Access Is Being Blocked by Secret Drug Limits

#29

Post by IAmGraydon » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 10:30 PM UTC

The DEA has likely done more damage to this country than any other three letter agency, and that’s saying something.

Re: Xanax and Adderall Access Is Being Blocked by Secret Drug Limits

#30

Post by SeanAnderson » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 10:31 PM UTC

symlinkk wrote: post #9

Overtonwindow wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You underestimate college students because that is exactly what we did in college. People went to their doctor, faked hyperactivity, and were given adderall which they then sold to other students. I'm sure your ADD is horrible but try telling someone taking these drugs to stop. They won't. They depend on it too much and it's become part of their personality, and their belief that it is what they need. Just. Like. Oxy…

What’s the big deal? The definition of ADHD is extremely fuzzy anyway. Why not just let whoever take them that wants them?

Well, IMO, it puts everyone into a mental arms-race reminiscent of steroid use in bodybuilding competitions.

If you told me I was going to take a standardized test where only the top 10% make the cut, and everyone serious about winning is taking a mental PED, then yeah I am going to feel intrinsic pressure to step-up and also engage in that mental arms race. I would've been just as happy to not do that if I were given a more level playing field.

It's no secret that there is a war going on to commoditize attention. I want to live in a world where people hone their ability to push back against having their attention leeched not one where everyone raises their baseline to cope temporarily.

I also have to think that, long term, it's kind of disrespectful to those with ADHD. If expectations of attention rise due to uptake in mental PEDs then where does that leave those who were originally disadvantaged? They lose their ability to exist on a more level playing field.

Bit of a tangent, but many years ago when I was wrapping up college, I was in a Calc III class over summer. The course was being taught at an advanced pace and basically everyone in the class was struggling after the first exam. The professor addressed the class about the poor performance and then called out a student in the front row. The professor said, "You! You did well on the exam. What was your secret to studying?" and, not missing a beat, the student responded, "Adderall!" I took the hint, bought some from a friend, and suddenly found myself passing the class with flying colors. It felt good in the moment, but honestly only because I wasn't being graded on a curve. It would've been wildly demoralizing if I'd been in direct competition with my peers.

I know life isn't fair and it's a pipedream to clamber on about desiring a level playing field, but surely we can agree that physical fitness competitions are more interesting when they are separated between "natty" and "enhanced" competitors? And that if we eliminated that separation that those without PEDs are disadvantaged? I don't see society making that sort of separation for mental fitness and so I am concerned about letting stimulants loose on the population.