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Midjourney CEO Silencing Satire About Xi Jinping

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Re: Midjourney CEO Silencing Satire About Xi Jinping

#321

Post by madeofpalk »

Aunche wrote: post #306
whythre wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bending the knee to a brutal ethnic cleansing regime is never a positive, regardless of the size of the entity capitulating.

At the end of the day, it's his company, so he can choose what services to supply. Freedom of speech means that he is allowed to have is own worldview that you disagree with, and you're free to use any other AI tools to make as much satire as you wish. If you're worried about China, worry about our incompetent Congress who is more interested in collecting sound bites than actually learn enough about technology to wri…

Yes. No one doubts who's company it is. That does not make their actions free from criticism.

They're free to do what they want, others are free to say what they want to say (well, except when using Midjourney), the company can listen or not, and people can use Midjourney or not.

Saying "if you don't like it, shut up and find something else" doesn't seem particularly productive.

Re: Midjourney CEO Silencing Satire About Xi Jinping

#322

Post by manuelmoreale »

doodlebugging wrote: post #310
manuelmoreale wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Who are we? What values do we share? What behavior are we willing to tolerate? How much will it cost us to allow a company or an individual to compromise our principles? Do you think these are questions where a single answer can be found? Don’t you think that different societies will inevitably have different opinions on those subjects?

I expect that there are many different ways to answer those questions and that the answers will likely vary for any number of reasons. I also expect that behind most of those answers is a thread that links all of us to some common ground which should serve as the foundation for our belief system and a point where we can all drink from the same cup and resolve to find ways to understand why our answers differ and to a…

That is a great answer and a wonderful way to look at things. Thank you for that, really.

Re: Midjourney CEO Silencing Satire About Xi Jinping

#324

Post by krapp »

Teever wrote: post #307
krapp wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Should a company be allowed to own slaves? No, because slavery is illegal. >Should a company be allowed to do business with a company that owns slaves? They do, all the time. Manufacturing, mining (particularly of the rare earth metals that go into electronics) and agriculture all depend on slave labor.

Should the second one be illegal as well? What is the functional difference between the two besides more paperwork and another middle man taking a cut?

It certainly should be illegal, but a lot of the comforts of first-world civilization would vanish and the velocity of modern capitalism would grind to a halt, so politically speaking apart from token gestures that don't threaten the status quo that isn't likely to happen.

Re: Midjourney CEO Silencing Satire About Xi Jinping

#325

Post by flerovium »

mindcandy wrote: post #74

Everyone is crying Corporate Greed in here. And, I can understand why. But, here’s another perspective based on listening to David Holz answer all kinds of questions from random users for four hours a week for over a year during Midjourney’s “Office Hours”. AFAICT, Midjourney has no shareholders and David Holz is the farthest thing from a slick CEO. He’s a big dreamer hippie dork. He made all the money he cares to ha…

You seem to misunderstand that this is the purpose of censorship by China. It makes political opposition "taboo". To criticize the leader is to seem "dirty", "sus", and "rude".

The rest is done by the desire for social acceptance.

Midjourney is playing directly into China's censorship.

If homosexuality makes people uncomfortable in the Middle East, should Midjourney ban non-sexual depictions of same-sex couples?

Re: Midjourney CEO Silencing Satire About Xi Jinping

#326

Post by seanmcdirmid »

skrebbel wrote: post #171
andrewstuart wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So it just happens that hippy values and western greed kowtowing to authoritarian regime values purely for the sake of money happen to be exactly the same thing. A story too convenient for my taste but everyone is free to believe whatever they want.

What would you do? Remember, there’s really only two options: run a service in a country and abide by the law and norms of that country, or don’t run a service in that country (ie IP geoblock the entire place). I mean, sure, you can run a service that abides by the law but not the norms (eg Onlyfans is available in the US despite the US being a country founded by prudes), but it’s hard and you need your full focus to…

China's legal system doesn't run on rule of law, it runs on threat of rule by law. In this case, it means anyone who wants to function in china must predict what the government will dislike, since there is no actual Chinese law against making fun of Xi Jinping (but they will shut you down anyways if you allow it).

Sure, if they want to operate in China they are taking the best course of action, but it will hardly be enough since it is an user produced content system.

Re: Midjourney CEO Silencing Satire About Xi Jinping

#327

Post by seanmcdirmid »

skywal_l wrote: post #250
mindcandy wrote: post #74

Everyone is crying Corporate Greed in here. And, I can understand why. But, here’s another perspective based on listening to David Holz answer all kinds of questions from random users for four hours a week for over a year during Midjourney’s “Office Hours”. AFAICT, Midjourney has no shareholders and David Holz is the farthest thing from a slick CEO. He’s a big dreamer hippie dork. He made all the money he cares to ha…

> ridiculing politicians in China is taboo, having people ridicule Xi on MJ would make it unwelcoming to people in China Your entire argument relies on this assumption that I have a hard time to believe. I know close to nothing of Chinese culture but the few Chinese people I know are not shy about criticizing their president or their political class in general. I mean, the "Winnie the pooh" meme comes from China!

Ya, it shouldn't be very surprising that most of the people interested in satirizing the Chinese government are Chinese.

Re: Midjourney CEO Silencing Satire About Xi Jinping

#329

Post by dTal »

Steltek wrote: post #252
FpUser wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what can happen when you ridicule Macron in France: "She currently stands accused of "insulting the president of the republic" and will stand trial on 20 June in Saint Omer, the prosecutor said. She risks a prison sentence and a fine of €15,000 if convicted at the trial." - [0] Looks like they are learning from the best. [0] - https://www.euronews.com/culture/2023/03/30/heres-the-story-...

Somewhere out there is a good copy-pasta dismissal of these boring reflexive "But look! A Western country did something similar that one time so that makes it okay for us to do!" responses.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

Re: Midjourney CEO Silencing Satire About Xi Jinping

#330

Post by mainframed »

skrebbel wrote: post #171
andrewstuart wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So it just happens that hippy values and western greed kowtowing to authoritarian regime values purely for the sake of money happen to be exactly the same thing. A story too convenient for my taste but everyone is free to believe whatever they want.

What would you do? Remember, there’s really only two options: run a service in a country and abide by the law and norms of that country, or don’t run a service in that country (ie IP geoblock the entire place). I mean, sure, you can run a service that abides by the law but not the norms (eg Onlyfans is available in the US despite the US being a country founded by prudes), but it’s hard and you need your full focus to…

There is a third and a fourth option.

3. Split the platform/user-base. Allow freedom of expression in western countries and censor it in China.

4. Censor prompts and images only in China, which still allows sharing non-political artwork between Chinese and western user.

All other platforms operating in China (of Chinese or western origin) have to do the same.

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