What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide • Hacker News Board

Re: What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide

#671

Post by ptr » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 7:23 PM UTC

jdmoreira wrote: post #544

jdmoreira wrote: post #535

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My income is higher than the average income in any post-code in Sweden (as far as I can tell). So the problem is not "income". It's other sorts of privilegies I don't have. For example "time in the real estate market pre 2010". Income != Wealth

also the higher brackets of salary in Sweden are not even high for European standards. They are in fact quite low

As a software engineer (consultant/contractor), you can easily make 80k USD post tax in Sweden. That’s not too bad.

Re: What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide

#672

Post by tpmx » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 9:56 PM UTC

ptr wrote: post #671

jdmoreira wrote: post #544

Earlier quoted context omitted.

also the higher brackets of salary in Sweden are not even high for European standards. They are in fact quite low

As a software engineer (consultant/contractor), you can easily make 80k USD post tax in Sweden. That’s not too bad.

This is the way.

Re: What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide

#673

Post by r00fus » Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 12:35 AM UTC

marvin wrote: post #372

r00fus wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can build all you want the corporate and foreign wealth will still buy it before people can.

Well, if they keep buying once there are twice as many housing units as people that want to buy them, they’ll go bankrupt and no one will buy their assets at a reasonable price. So that problem solves itself.

I used to think that, but they influence (read: buy) any politicians and regulators who adjust the policies (the pols benefit by knowing what they're doing also) - either they shift the approach, or exempt themselves.

Re: What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide

#674

Post by parker_mountain » Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 2:55 AM UTC

nlitened wrote: post #587

parker_mountain wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American here, in silicon valley. I'm actually a bay area native, and the only reason I'm able to stay close to my parents is that I make a "tech salary". I bought a moderately sized condo, and it was a huge stretch at the time when I bought it - now that I've advanced my career, it's not such a huge load. But, the fact that, at $110k a year, a two bedroom (yet small) place was a huge stress. And that was not even in…

> Something is broken when it's a financial pressure for someone in the top 10% of income to live within an hour drive of where they want to be That’s a place where probably billion other people would love to be.

Sure, but there's so much open, empty, and underutilized space. With some more aggressive building and well implemented transit policy, we could really fit a lot more people into the area without creating a decrease in quality of life. Not even like a huge amount of people, like 10% more.

Re: What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide

#675

Post by cannabis_sam » Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 3:33 AM UTC

cannabis_sam wrote: post #255

It’s not complicated, housing is being used as an investment vehicle for narcissistic speculators to make bank, while clueless homeowner assholes are desperately clinging to their mortgages. This is a constant across the western world, and it’s not gonna change until middle class families end up living on the street. The sooner this psychotic, braindead and hateful housing market collapses, the better.

I literally can’t believe this comment actually got upvotes; at least this restores some sliver of faith in humanity for me..

Re: What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide

#676

Post by robocat » Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 8:17 AM UTC

4gotunameagain wrote: post #494

rullelito wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think you get the same type of immigrant to New Zealand as Sweden? Please..

Immigrants are the same all over: less cultured, less educated and poorer than the host country. Otherwise they wouldn't immigrate.

In New Zealand a lot of immigrants get residency via the skilled migrant category. They are generally well educated, well informed, and often reasonable well off. The skilled migrant category chooses those attributes, including a category if you are just wealthy enough! Current scoring system I think: https://rnz-ressh.cloudinary.com/image/upload/s--mt6iKVzS--/...

Also due to the number of applicants, I believe there is definitely a filter for the more capable immigrants. They might be poor, but they work hard and usually show us locals up (at least that is what I have seen). Many immigrants might not integrate well, but their kids are usually totally kiwi New Zealanders.

The same thing occurs for tradies going from NZ to the UK: it tends to be the focused hard working and highly skilled that emigrate from New Zealand.

Re: What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide

#677

Post by cjblomqvist » Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 8:33 AM UTC

patall wrote: post #29

Not sure about the main story about the article. However, construction on that Ursvik/Rinkby construction site has been very slow since long before the current crisis. I was biking through the neighboring bridge of the one mentioned here (that is about 100m down the road, so much about that new bridge alone enabling crime) for about 8 month and while my way through changed a few times, progress was very slow. (Not th…

> But no, false national pride has now made the entire economic down-turn even harder.

Or it's more nuanced than that and there are actual benefits (as well as downsides) to having your own currency. It's like Covid. When it went well everybody was cheering and saying how we Swedes were geniuses. When it flipped, we were suckers. Maybe, it's more complex and actually quite a lot about luck and other factors.

Another example. Few have historically thought ill of Sweden's long (now gone) tradition of being neutral. One thing that makes it very difficult to be neutral is having a currency that you only control a few percent of.

Re: What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide

#678

Post by LeanderK » Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 12:54 PM UTC

caconym_ wrote: post #270

erur wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's definitely not every city in Germany that has this problem. You're trying to live in one of the objectively best parts of Germany by a lot of stats and thus you're competing with a lot of folks. I'm honestly sick of this whining about rent in top-tier areas. Living there is a luxury, given the major move to cities and scarcity, driven by insane regulations and basic logic. There are plenty of cities in Germany w…

Are the opportunities in those other cities comparable? I don't know Germany, but usually when I see people saying this about places I do know the answer is a resounding 'no'. So it would seem to be a little more complicated than entitled kids these days who simply will not compromise.

somewhat. You still have Hamburg, Frankfurt, Berlin etc.

Maybe Munich has slightly better opportunities, really depends on you specific niche, but then probably Zurich has even better opportunities but is even costlier. Or Copenhagen.

I really somewhat agree. You really have to see that living in munich is a luxury that a lot of people can not enjoy because it's too expensive. Since you major in CS your social bubble is very well of (75k salary for the first job?) so you see it as somewhat given that you also belong there. And at the TUM they constantly tell you how much of an elite you are. It's a bit entitled I would say. Many Germans can't really live in munich and therefore have access to the opportunities there, it's just the most expensive place in germany you can rent in.

You can always try to find a flat to share with roommates, this is still possible in munich.

Re: What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide

#679

Post by mthoms » Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 8:24 PM UTC

listenallyall wrote: post #640

mthoms wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s not what “power” means. They don’t have the power to force anything to happen outside their little get together. The only “power” they have is limited to what participants can or can’t do while attending. Such as: they have the power to require attendees wear their name tags as a condition for attending. (Not sure if that’s actually a thing; it’s merely illustrative)

If you only think power = force, you don't understand how real power is wielded. You're absolutely correct, WEF will not jail you if you do something its members don't like. If you assume that means it doesn't have any power other than enforcing name tag rules, you're naive.

Can you give an example where they have wielded this power? That is, can you give a single, solitary example where the WEF has implemented something that goes against the wishes of the electorate somewhere? Anything?

Re: What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide

#680

Post by mthoms » Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 8:27 PM UTC

LegitShady wrote: post #249

mthoms wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there any economists that support your theory? Namely that (if I understand your point correctly) immigration is hurting the economy more than it’s helping? Everything I’ve seen claims the opposite - but I’m open to new information. Also, what support do you have for the claim that the existence of temporary foreign workers suppress wages for working Canadians? My understanding is that they are performing jobs th…

They aren't doing jobs canadians wont do, they're doing jobs canadians wont do for the wages being offered. If they raised the wages, people would want to do them. Instead companies hire at very low wages, and very few people want to work for them, they apply to bring in TFW who are desperate. Their presence suppresses the wages because there's a basically unlimited pool of people willing to work for suppressed wages…

We partially agree here. However the vast majority of TFW’s are farm labourers. This is gruelling, backbreaking work that am not convinced Canadians would do at any (realistic) wage. It’s also highly seasonal so not really a big help if people just go on EI afterwards. Furthermore, with grocery inflation what it is, what do you think would happen if the wages of the pickers doubled or tripled because they were done by Canadians?

I’ll tell you what would happen - People would lose their minds.

So… it’s complicated (at least in that industry). I’m not as convinced about the need for them in tech and restaurants because, as you say, they should probably just pay more and Canadians would do those jobs. But the numbers I saw don’t seem that significant so I’m not so sure.

Unemployment is also at the lowest it’s been in ~50 years so.. where would those new Canadian workers come from anyways?

There are no simple answers. That’s why I’d like to see what economists are saying. I know that with regular immigration, there’s a consensus among many economists that we need them so our economy doesn’t actually shrink due to low birth rates.