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$70 RISC-V Computer from Pine64 Goes on Sale April 4 – OMG Linux

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Re: $70 RISC-V Computer from Pine64 Goes on Sale April 4 – OMG Linux

#11

Post by ghaff »

haunter wrote: post #6
unixgoddess wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what about AMD? wasn't it gaining traction?

If you mean amd64 it's the 64 bit extension of the x86 instruction set. It's just named after AMD because they were the ones introducing it while Intel was instead working on the arguably failed brand new 64 bit-only Itanium architecture. In the end they "went back" and picked up amd64 too that's why multiple names exist: x64, x86_64, amd64.

And there were/are some differences between AMD and Intel 64-bit x86 once you get into the details (and indeed between various extensions on a given microarchitecture). x86_64 (or x86-64), ugly as it is, is probably the best way to refer to specifically 64-bit x86 at a non-vendor-specific level. Just x86 works for a lot of purposes too.

Re: $70 RISC-V Computer from Pine64 Goes on Sale April 4 – OMG Linux

#12

Post by cfiggers »

NeutralForceUsr wrote: post #2

Can someone explain what all the fuss around RISC-V is about?

Basically, all the same arguments you've heard in favor of open source in general.

Today, board developers have to pay if they want to license ARM. And with recent developments coming out of ARM, the price to pay is going up by a lot, very soon. If RISC-V can develop to the point of more or less parity with ARM, then that will enable cheaper products that are just as good, equally priced products that are better, or equivalently positioned products that return a better profit to their manufacturers (which is good for you even if only indirectly—better profitability means easier entry for competition, better financial stability behind whatever ecosystem you're buying into, lower chances of companies crashing and leaving behind unmaintainable e-waste, etc).

IMO, reduced rent-seeking is good for everybody no matter what sector. I want more collaboration and less human effort/ingenuity/resource dissipating to waste heat. Open source makes Moloch cry.

Re: $70 RISC-V Computer from Pine64 Goes on Sale April 4 – OMG Linux

#13

Post by genmud »

I really like Pine64, this is really nice to see! The coolest part IMHO is they are including an PCIe x1 slot, right on the board.

I feel like RISC V has really started to pick up momentum over the last year or two, which is awesome to see. There have also been a bunch of tiny RISC V softcores for FPGAs too.

Re: $70 RISC-V Computer from Pine64 Goes on Sale April 4 – OMG Linux

#14

Post by HopenHeyHi »

Steltek wrote: post #10
NeutralForceUsr wrote: post #2

Can someone explain what all the fuss around RISC-V is about?

People get excited because "it's open source". Except it's really not as only the instruction set is "open source" and even that doesn't really mean much as interfaces have dubious copyright protection. Still, it promises a cheaper alternative to ARM because of the theoretical reduced licensing costs from the trademark name. The other salient is political: ARM, x86, etc are Western aligned while RISC-V is attractivel…

I don't care about licensing costs just the final total cost. And I absolutely don't care that it is "politically nonaligned", bah.

I care because David Patterson is a badass who was right about everything. :)

Re: $70 RISC-V Computer from Pine64 Goes on Sale April 4 – OMG Linux

#15

Post by Steltek »

haunter wrote: post #3
NeutralForceUsr wrote: post #2

Can someone explain what all the fuss around RISC-V is about?

x86 is the past, but ARM is proprietary. RISC-V is the open source answer (there is SPARC but it's much older and never gained enough traction + Power/PowerPC became open source too but it's also not a modern ISA)

> RISC-V is the open source answer

This particular CPU is not open source.

Re: $70 RISC-V Computer from Pine64 Goes on Sale April 4 – OMG Linux

#16

Post by genmud »

cfiggers wrote: post #12
NeutralForceUsr wrote: post #2

Can someone explain what all the fuss around RISC-V is about?

Basically, all the same arguments you've heard in favor of open source in general. Today, board developers have to pay if they want to license ARM. And with recent developments coming out of ARM, the price to pay is going up by a lot, very soon. If RISC-V can develop to the point of more or less parity with ARM, then that will enable cheaper products that are just as good, equally priced products that are better, or…

SiFive is pretty nice, they have a very attractive offering and will probably make the transition much easier for folks who are on ARM offerings.

IMHO the biggest issue right now with ARM is the uncertainty surrounding it, their Chinese subsidiary went rogue and they are trying to raise prices significantly in preparation for a sale or IPO.

Re: $70 RISC-V Computer from Pine64 Goes on Sale April 4 – OMG Linux

#17

Post by Steltek »

While looking for the successor to Raspberry Pi's, my interest revolves around how open source the drivers are and whether they're upstreamed or not. I have no interesting in a board, no matter how cheap, that will be stuck on some ancient, unmaintained kernel version.

It looks like they're off to a good start but appearances can be deceiving. Kernel is a fork and who knows if it's missing anything. It's all pretty new so I wouldn't expect it in mainline. GPU (Imagination BXE4-32) also seems to have a pipeline towards upstreaming.

https://wiki.pine64.org/wiki/STAR64

It's nice to see that it has onboard wifi. Barrel jack for power, rather than USB-C, is a little disappointing.

Re: $70 RISC-V Computer from Pine64 Goes on Sale April 4 – OMG Linux

#18

Post by rwmj »

NeutralForceUsr wrote: post #2

Can someone explain what all the fuss around RISC-V is about?

For CPU developers it's permissionless. To develop a new Arm chip you need to negotiate a license up front from that company. To develop a new x86 chip, well, forget about that. Intel won't license x86 for any amount of money. For RISC-V, download a BSD-licensed core from github, or grab the BSD-licensed specs and write your own. No need to ask anyone's permission, and no fees to pay.

Re: $70 RISC-V Computer from Pine64 Goes on Sale April 4 – OMG Linux

#20

Post by zwieback »

Since most of us don't design CPUs or micros, does it matter much whether it's RISC-V vs ARM? In other words, is there any way to contribute in the RISC-V space and gain an advantage? I can see how it could work out for Intel or Nvidia but for an end-user I can't see how I would jump away from the architecture I've spent the last 10 years on.
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