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France convicts Google Maps for unfair competition

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Re: France convicts Google Maps for unfair competition

#51

Post by brudgers »

alexis-d wrote: post #43
alexis-d wrote: post #4

I'm French and I really think that's a shame. What's next? Microsoft to sue Google because Docs are free?

Can someone explain me the downvotes? I mean the Microsoft/Google thing was a half serious, half joke question.

Half serious comments and snark often get downvoted - particularly when they add nothing to the discussion, and almost inevitably when they are appear intended to take the discussion off track by baiting partisan disagreements or fanboyism.

Downvotes should be considered editorial feedback - either you didn't make your point clearly, or your comment is considered likely to derail the discussion.

Use the "edit" and "delete" links, respectively if you are concerned about the karma score of a particular comment.

It is bad form on HN to complain about downvotes.

Re: France convicts Google Maps for unfair competition

#52

Post by mjwalshe »

No google has been found guilty of not being a French company - or not employing the right grads from ENA whose "Papa" went to ENA with the right people whose "Papa" also went to ENA

Same way it was the was non french companies that got raided over the 35 hours working time laws

Re: France convicts Google Maps for unfair competition

#54

Post by ekianjo »

kolinko wrote: post #48
ekianjo wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, this kind of law does not make any sense. In the case of carrefour, since they are charging such high prices nowadays, what prevents a bunch of farmers to associate themselves and open their own mall to sell cheaper and regain market share? Nothing, absolutely nothing. They just can't be bothered. Lack of competition is not only about big brands killing small ones. It's also part of the culture. It's been a…

Isn't this what game theory is about? Smaller competitors won't open up, because even if Carrefour has high prices, the chain can lower prices any time to wipe out the competitors again. So, the monopolist can have arbitrarily high prices because nobody will invest in opening shops. This is one of the situations in which free market fails to deliver the optimal (for consumers) solution.

It's not just about prices. It was only about prices, then there would be McDonalds everywhere and nothing else. If farmers were to open their own stores, they could still manage to have reasonable prices, and make their point on "best quality", "organic food", plus offering some plants / species you would never be able to find in a big supermarket. You can't go head to head against Carrefour by just providing the same service. They would have to differentiate. That's how free market works. There are always needs that the big competitor will not be able to cater to.

Re: France convicts Google Maps for unfair competition

#55

Post by alexis-d »

brudgers wrote: post #51
alexis-d wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can someone explain me the downvotes? I mean the Microsoft/Google thing was a half serious, half joke question.

Half serious comments and snark often get downvoted - particularly when they add nothing to the discussion, and almost inevitably when they are appear intended to take the discussion off track by baiting partisan disagreements or fanboyism. Downvotes should be considered editorial feedback - either you didn't make your point clearly, or your comment is considered likely to derail the discussion. Use the "edit" and "d…

Ok thanks for the explanations.

" It is bad form on HN to complain about downvotes."

I didn't complain I just wanted explanations.

Re: France convicts Google Maps for unfair competition

#56

Post by ttt_ »

kolinko wrote: post #48
ekianjo wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, this kind of law does not make any sense. In the case of carrefour, since they are charging such high prices nowadays, what prevents a bunch of farmers to associate themselves and open their own mall to sell cheaper and regain market share? Nothing, absolutely nothing. They just can't be bothered. Lack of competition is not only about big brands killing small ones. It's also part of the culture. It's been a…

Isn't this what game theory is about? Smaller competitors won't open up, because even if Carrefour has high prices, the chain can lower prices any time to wipe out the competitors again. So, the monopolist can have arbitrarily high prices because nobody will invest in opening shops. This is one of the situations in which free market fails to deliver the optimal (for consumers) solution.

>> This is one of the situations in which free market fails to deliver the optimal (for consumers) solution.

I never considered the free market idea to be based on delivering the optimal solution for consumers, actually the oposite, it delivers the optimal solution for enterprises, specially the big ones where the real money and power is made and retained or traded.

Market does not preocupy with people, the state does (In theory. In practice the state may just pretend to preocupy or simply perform poorly or corruptly). Nevertheless, Market's only concerns are Buy and Sell, anything it says is Marketing and everything it does is Strategy.

Re: France convicts Google Maps for unfair competition

#57

Post by mattmanser »

babarock wrote: post #47

How come we assume that Google is going to start charging as soon as competitors died? I draw analogies with the IE vs Netscape history. When IE became bundled for free in Windows, Netscape open-sourced its code to survive. Where would the browser be today had a judge ruled that Microsoft cannot do this and that Microsoft (and Netscape) should continue charging for their product?

It would be able to fly.

But seriously, the general consensus is that IE was a Bad Thing in the long run.

Also Netscape did not open-source the code 'to survive'. Don't reinvent history.

Re: France convicts Google Maps for unfair competition

#58

Post by drcube »

uniclaude wrote: post #11
Tichy wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK so lets shut down Wikipedia next.

Well, either you did not understand the comment you are replying to, or you believe that Wikipedia will charge for its access. What does make you think such a thing ?

The OP said that it's illegal to offer something for free if it costs money to make. I guess Richard Stallman is public enemy #1 in France?

Re: France convicts Google Maps for unfair competition

#59

Post by abrahamsen »

babarock wrote: post #47

How come we assume that Google is going to start charging as soon as competitors died? I draw analogies with the IE vs Netscape history. When IE became bundled for free in Windows, Netscape open-sourced its code to survive. Where would the browser be today had a judge ruled that Microsoft cannot do this and that Microsoft (and Netscape) should continue charging for their product?

A judge did rule that Microsoft could not bundle IE with Windows.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft

Microsoft would have been split into two if the DOJ had not interfered.

Re: France convicts Google Maps for unfair competition

#60

Post by DeanCollinsLCC »

ghc wrote: post #27
nodata wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe has loads of nice things. You should visit sometime. This ruling, presumably, is about a big company subsidising its unprofitable mapping business with another part of its business until the small fish die.

> Europe has loads of nice things. You should visit sometime. HN is not a place for flame wars about countries (or continents). He had a valid point, as he was referencing the hostile legal climate for doing (some kinds of) business in several European countries (and in some cases the EU).

lol like the USA is a hostile legal place to do business :)
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