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Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

france24.com

511–520 of 571 posts

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#511

You can rent but not own one in London which is bizarre. Random person on scooter they don’t own is safer to TFL.

Not really bizarre. You can regulate rental companies and insist on certain safety requirements, max speed etc but as soon as you let everyone ride their own, it's all out the window and the Police have enough to do without arguing about whether your scooter is going 3mph over the speed limit.

There is also the "taxi" argument that it is better to have 5000 shared scooters than 50000 private ones but I don't know whether one is really better, I guess scooters are designed to take inside at your work/home so maybe not as bad.

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#512
I haven't seen this take in the thread yet, but I support the ban because the kick-scooter form factor is inherently more dangerous than the alternatives.

There are several ways they are more dangerous than a bicycle: Smaller wheels means a smaller obstacle brings the rider to a dead stop- once you hit something that is at the height of the axle of the wheel, it's the same as hitting a brick wall.

That's compounded by the fact that such falls use the scooter as a lever to smash the rider's face into the pavement. It's a very rare bicycle accident that throws the rider's head/face directly into the pavement- which means that bicycle helmets aren't designed to protect the face! So even the most common form of protection is much less effective for scooter riders.

The electric scooter is much closer in safety profile to the electric unicycle, but the electric unicycles feel dangerous to riders, so people give them respect. The scooter seems like a child's toy, so people overlook the danger.

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#513
post #500

I think electric personal mobility vehicles are such a missed opportunity in terms of climate / traffic reduction. Certainly in the UK the fact that they started by being basically illegal for years and means they are, for the most part, ridden by people who don't give a shit or people who's parents don't give a shit.

I don’t think illegality filtered for people who don’t give a shit. I think it filtered for risk-takers. It’s risky to one’s safety to ride a personal powered vehicle on city streets. I think the median rider is less worried about safety compared to either the pedestrians or the cars.

How are you defining the difference between non-risk-averse and not giving a shit?

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#515
Though this is certainly their right and I agree with the decision, I think this was sort of overplayed. What I personally would have liked to see is a "deposit" tax of $10- or some amount included in each rental. Then, if scooters are brought back to specific areas, determined by the city, the person who brings it back gets back their $10.

I'm confident an appropriate deposit tax would've satisfied both parties and perhaps gave passerbys an incentive to pick them up.

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#516

You can rent but not own one in London which is bizarre. Random person on scooter they don’t own is safer to TFL.

TfL seems to be focused on ensuring the devices are safe, rather than ensuring the devices are used safely.

  The operators were chosen after an open and competitive process to assess their ability to meet strict safety requirements and high operating standards. (For example, the scooter batteries can be monitored to ensure they meet fire safety regulations.)
Also, AIUI this is a trial, and people might not buy their own scooters if they knew their right to use them was only temporary. So it would be a difficult test to run. Also: data.

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#517
post #508
post #492

To be clear: it's not all e-scooter, it's the free service ones. Parisian can still own and use their own, but they're done with the ones being left on the ground randomly, being used in poor fashion (on the sidewalk, or with two/three people standing on one), being thrown in the river, ... And that's mostly caused by free services ones that you don't own and thus don't care if anything happens to it. I don't live in…

I'm glad scooters are not banned outright, every non-car person on the road is a bonus IMHO because it makes people care more about the road safety and air quality. I don't know why governments in so many cities decide that scooter "litter" is acceptable in the slightest. I don't blame startups for trying to get away with using everyone else's public and private property as their cost cutting "free storage" solution…

> I don't blame startups for trying to get away with using everyone else's public and private property as their cost cutting "free storage" solution

Don't you? I do. Just because something is technically legal doesn't mean it's good behaviour, and we can absolutely blame people for exhibiting bad behaviour.

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#518
Something vaguely similar happened in Berlin: They banned parking rental 50cc scooters on the pavement, they have to be parked on the street, competing for parking with cars.

To me this is a terrible rule, completely out of touch. Scooters improve the city as they are electric, small, and less dangerous to others. I have a car and in the summer I often pay a few euros to rent those electric 50cc scooters because they are really nice. However, one of the major benefits is that you can park anywhere.

There is a designated strip on the pedestrian walkway where it used to be allowed to park them, currently its only allowed for bicycles. There is more than enough room there and as its on the side it bothers no one. So banning them from there is not necessary.

The real problem we have is not even about these specific 50cc scooters but about the smaller ones that are mentioned here. Which have not been affected by this ban. The real problem is that some bad people, maybe its the tourists, literally park them in the very middle of the walkway, blocking people and being terribly annoying. And for this, the solution would be harsh punishments. Eg. when someone parks their scooter this way they have to pay a massive fine or get banned or whatever. Maybe users could report them and get a bounty.

So, while there is a real problem, the politicians, where I live, made this terrible decision. And when I came home, exhausted from work, there was actually parking right in front of my doorstep, but it was blocked by two rental scooters.

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#519
Something vaguely similar happened in Berlin: They banned parking rental 50cc scooters on the pavement, they have to be parked on the street, competing for parking with cars. To me this is a terrible rule, completely out of touch. Scooters improve the city as they are electric, small, and less dangerous to others. I have a car and in the summer I often pay a few euros to rent those electric 50cc scooters because they are really nice. However, one of the major benefits is that you can park anywhere.

There is a designated strip on the pedestrian walkway where it used to be allowed to park them, currently its only allowed for bicycles. There is more than enough room there and as its on the side it bothers no one. So banning them from there is not necessary.

The real problem we have is not even about these specific 50cc scooters but about the smaller ones that are mentioned here. Which have not been affected by this ban. The real problem is that some bad people, maybe its the tourists, literally park them in the very middle of the walkway, blocking people and being terribly annoying. And for this, the solution would be harsh punishments. Eg. when someone parks their scooter this way they have to pay a massive fine or get banned or whatever. Maybe users could report them and get a bounty.

So, while there is a real problem, the politicians, where I live, made this terrible decision. And when I came home, exhausted from work, there was actually parking right in front of my doorstep, but it was blocked by two rental scooters.

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#520
post #508

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm glad scooters are not banned outright, every non-car person on the road is a bonus IMHO because it makes people care more about the road safety and air quality. I don't know why governments in so many cities decide that scooter "litter" is acceptable in the slightest. I don't blame startups for trying to get away with using everyone else's public and private property as their cost cutting "free storage" solution…

> I don't blame startups for trying to get away with using everyone else's public and private property as their cost cutting "free storage" solution Don't you? I do. Just because something is technically legal doesn't mean it's good behaviour, and we can absolutely blame people for exhibiting bad behaviour.

Ah but you see, they can be excused because they are a corporation making a profit! Who needs public spaces anyway
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