Earlier quoted context omitted.
I see why you're saying what you are about the "facts," but I'm not at all convinced that it's so clear-cut that the plaintiffs are all that wrong. Which is to say, compare these models to e.g. simple image compression. If compressed images can violate, the argument that "this is merely VERY GOOD and VERSATILE image compression" probably has enough legal legs to do something with.
From the article: researchers were able to reproduce training images (and bad versions of them at that) 0.03 percent of the time. Not 3 percent, mind you, but 109 out of 350,000 images could be reproduced. And if you go back to the paper, these tended to be images which were heavily duplicated in the training set, so the failure modes should be easy to guard against...
Stable Diffusion copyright lawsuits could be a legal earthquake for AI
91–100 of 166 posts
Re: Stable Diffusion copyright lawsuits could be a legal earthquake for AI
#92Earlier quoted context omitted.
So if a Human Artist did this on an "industrial scale" you would sue them for having similar a style, how do you think that lawsuit would turn out for you? You are actually mad at the moral implications of Capitalism and not the legality of AI art?
> So if a Human Artist did this on an "industrial scale" you would sue them for having similar a style, how do you think that lawsuit would turn out for you? when it becomes a realistic possibility that a single human can ingest every work ever created, and then output a derived work in a second to thousands of people at a time: I'll let you know
Re: Stable Diffusion copyright lawsuits could be a legal earthquake for AI
#93Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think copyright is a real world counter example to this kind of argument (that raw economics will override the legal protection). If you are selling anything, you have to respect copyright. So if training on copyrighted images becomes illegal, it doesn’t mean that people won’t be able to create stable diffusion models (they will do it regardless). But it does mean that businesses won’t be able to use them, which re…
Proof both ways is difficult. How will a company prove that an image was generated with an illegally-trained model? Unless there becomes some requirement that models be kept around for a century.
Re: Stable Diffusion copyright lawsuits could be a legal earthquake for AI
#94It's pretty funny that most people that hate AI art and want it banned because of copyright violations, don't understand that the only difference that will make is that instead of having open models, you will only have closed models owned by Adobe who will license all the imagery from Getty, Disney, etc. AI art isn't going away, and it better be open instead of in full control of just 2 or 3 companies.
The AI process isn't going away, but suits like these will preserve the opportunity for artists and coders alike to get paid for their work or choose the terms under which it is shared. Without enforcing copyright rules on AI, it may mean the end of copyright entirely. I share a lot of images under CC-BY-SA-NC and share code under the GPL. If someone can train a model off my work and disregard the terms under which I…
This is a beautiful world, that can't come soon enough as far as I'm concerned.
Re: Stable Diffusion copyright lawsuits could be a legal earthquake for AI
#95Earlier quoted context omitted.
Nothing you have said implies you cannot copy the style of another artist. Which is obvious. People copy styles all the time. You don’t want Renoir suing Monet over who owns Impressionism. That is very different from saying you cannot recreate his specific works. Or do crappy Pop Art faux copies.
I’m not an artist so I have no problem with being able to generate almost free quality art on my own within minutes. Before those AI if I ever wanted something specific I had to go see an artist and ask (prompt) him for the art I want. If I ask him to draw Andy Warhol Marilyn with my face on it. Can he charge me for it without copyright infringement ? Maybe nobody cares and no one is going to do anything about it but…
You can generate whatever you want. If you want to sell it, then maybe it is a copyright violation. Maybe it isn’t. The point is that it does not matter that an AI tool made it or a human or a random falling of colored sand. Nobody is saying AI tool outputs are immune to copyright. What I am saying is that they are not intrinsically violations of copyright because training data.
> If all you do for a living is painting, if I wan’t a unique painting that fit your work style I have to ask you to do it. Now I can ask an AI to paint exactly that but you are not in the loop anymore but your work has been used to train this AI and no one will ever ask you to create art because they love your style and can have it for free.
That is deeply misleading. You are absolutely fine to ask another artist to create you a work in another artist’s style. The only difference here is cost and perhaps quality. Those are not problems with copyright.
> I mean, I’m all in for free stuff and I’m not an artist but what does artists feel about it
Bad
Re: Stable Diffusion copyright lawsuits could be a legal earthquake for AI
#96Earlier quoted context omitted.
> So if a Human Artist did this on an "industrial scale" you would sue them for having similar a style, how do you think that lawsuit would turn out for you? when it becomes a realistic possibility that a single human can ingest every work ever created, and then output a derived work in a second to thousands of people at a time: I'll let you know
So, reading your comment, I can infer that the main problem is not the fact that the AI was trained on copyrighted data, but the fact that its performance outperforms that of a human artist.
Re: Stable Diffusion copyright lawsuits could be a legal earthquake for AI
#97It's pretty funny that most people that hate AI art and want it banned because of copyright violations, don't understand that the only difference that will make is that instead of having open models, you will only have closed models owned by Adobe who will license all the imagery from Getty, Disney, etc. AI art isn't going away, and it better be open instead of in full control of just 2 or 3 companies.
The AI process isn't going away, but suits like these will preserve the opportunity for artists and coders alike to get paid for their work or choose the terms under which it is shared. Without enforcing copyright rules on AI, it may mean the end of copyright entirely. I share a lot of images under CC-BY-SA-NC and share code under the GPL. If someone can train a model off my work and disregard the terms under which I…
Ditto for LLMs. Obviously GPT-4 is the best game in town, but I have several LLMs and the code required to use them installed on several machines. Training new data for them can close the gap quite well at the expense of becoming less general.
We can’t regulate our way out of this one. That window closed a while ago.
Re: Stable Diffusion copyright lawsuits could be a legal earthquake for AI
#98> Erik Wallace, a computer scientist at the University of California, Berkeley, told me in a phone interview that the lawsuit had “technical inaccuracies” and was “stretching the truth a lot.” Wallace pointed out that Stable Diffusion is only a few gigabytes in size—far too small to contain compressed copies of all or even very many of its training images. >In reality, Stable Diffusion works by first converting a use…
It's simply not. Stable Diffusion 1.5 was trained on over two billion images. Even if we assume the images were only 10kb on average, that would require 20TB of storage space. The pruned 1.5 model is only 4.27GB, or 4,684x smaller. It is fundamentally and provably impossible to achieve that sort of compression ratio on diverse and already compressed images.
'Coordinates of the image' is a layman's explanation of latent space and the training process, it should not be taken literally.
> how would it be possible to fine tune the model on a set of images and recreate their style?
The fine tune process represents additional training, and to reliably and consistent reproduce a consistent style generally requires overfitting. It is very roughly analagous to an artist using a reference while drawing/painting.
> This is setting aside the myriad examples where SD regurgitates fairly close copies of individual works.
Some works were overrepresented in the dataset because they are overrepresented in the world. There are substantially more images and variants of the Mona Lisa on the internet than there are Random Twitter Artist's Furry Waifu.
This works in much the same way for humans, who are more far more likely to be influenced by the Mona Lisa than Furry Waifu.
> This is a bit like training a model on the works of Shakespeare, but then claiming that the tensors resulting from ingesting the data are not actually Shakespeare’s writing.
.. They aren't. Shakespeare did not write them. His works can't be reproduced from them. There is, provably, not enough data for it. This is more different than if an individual read and referenced Shakespeare while writing a play, for all that entails. Specifically: whether it's a human or a model generating the content, the content that is generated could be a violation of copyright.
You'll note that this is no different to if I copy and paste Mickey Mouse onto a tshirt design, or if I draw him on a piece of paper with a crayon.
Should we also be up in arms about copy/paste and crayons?
> Oh really, where’d they come from then? Thin air?
This hits on a more important point than I think you realize here. Where did inspiration for the human artists come from? Did they spring from a formless void? Or have they seen a lot of images, internalized what they think was important from it, and then generated art from that?
Re: Stable Diffusion copyright lawsuits could be a legal earthquake for AI
#99Is human recollection also an infringement on copyright?
Re: Stable Diffusion copyright lawsuits could be a legal earthquake for AI
#100Earlier quoted context omitted.
The AI process isn't going away, but suits like these will preserve the opportunity for artists and coders alike to get paid for their work or choose the terms under which it is shared. Without enforcing copyright rules on AI, it may mean the end of copyright entirely. I share a lot of images under CC-BY-SA-NC and share code under the GPL. If someone can train a model off my work and disregard the terms under which I…
The cat is already out of the bag on that one. You can download several open source text to image AIs and run them on your own computer. You can train new styles and concepts on your own computer in about 20 minutes. You can throw up roadblocks for the big players, but it’s far too spread out to ever be contained again. Ditto for LLMs. Obviously GPT-4 is the best game in town, but I have several LLMs and the code req…