AI won't steal your job, people leveraging AI will • Hacker News Board

Re: AI won't steal your job, people leveraging AI will

#61

Post by webstrand » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 2:35 PM UTC

UncleMeat wrote: post #41

gaoshan wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So far (super early days, I know) the main thing I've used AI for at work is to write tests for code I'm working on. I get to do the fun bit, solving the problem space, and the AI gets to do the tedious bit (and do it faster than I would). I'm liking at least that level of AI integration.

This is the one that is most scary to me as a user of software. Have the AI write some of the code, sure. But tests have to be correct. Autogenerating a mountain of mostly-correct tests strikes me as a great way of ending up with surprising behavior that is a nightmare to untangle.

That's not necessarily true. For instance snapshot testing, although there may be edge cases missed, the cases cannot be correct or incorrect.

Or you could have the AI write test cases (writing them out is often the most laborious part) and then validate them by hand. That'd be little different than writing them yourself, though again edge cases may be missed. You just skip the un-fun part of repetitively typing out the code for each case.

Re: AI won't steal your job, people leveraging AI will

#62

Post by cal85 » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 2:36 PM UTC

snarf21 wrote: post #10

This is a nonsense headline. This is the equivalent of "Factory automation won't steal your job, companies that buy factory automation will." Democratization of AI tools will have upsides and downsides but non researchers weren't playing around with AI text/chat generation before this last round of simple to use tools came out.

The headline is a pithy statement that those who ignore AI will be left behind, just as those who ignore automation were left behind. I don't think it means what you seem to think it means.

Re: AI won't steal your job, people leveraging AI will

#63

Post by davisoneee » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 2:36 PM UTC

hiccuphippo wrote: post #48

simonw wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Will you use a spellchecker when you send out emails about your company? How about doing research with a regular search engine? "Refusing to use AI" doesn't make sense to me as a blanket policy. If you're going to make that commitment - to yourself or to anyone else - you'll need to be a lot more precise in what you actually mean by that.

It's like being a vegan knowing farms still use bees for pollination and "organic" fertilizers from animal farms, or a human rights activist who uses a smartphone. Sometimes people just want to feel good about themselves and ignore the cognitive dissonance.

This seems willfully antagonistic and simplistic.

There are degrees of effort in any lifestyle. Degrees of 'veganism', or 'anti-AI' use.

Is there _really_ cognitive dissonance of someone doing some action to reduce their impact on animal welfare? Doing _more than most people_ to reduce their impact on animals? I say this as a regular meat eater, not a vegan. Your point comes across as bait-y for the sake of being bait-y, rather than contributing anything meaningful to the conversation.

Re: AI won't steal your job, people leveraging AI will

#64

Post by fnordpiglet » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 2:37 PM UTC

snarf21 wrote: post #10

This is a nonsense headline. This is the equivalent of "Factory automation won't steal your job, companies that buy factory automation will." Democratization of AI tools will have upsides and downsides but non researchers weren't playing around with AI text/chat generation before this last round of simple to use tools came out.

I think it’s absurd as well. Jobs won’t be stolen, different jobs will be created. At a certain point we will move past scarcity, and maybe we won’t have to labor to not die. What’s so important about a job? Humans need meaning, but meaning doesn’t have to be delivered by PayChex at the expense of the human soul.

Re: AI won't steal your job, people leveraging AI will

#65

Post by wkat4242 » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 2:37 PM UTC

gavinhoward wrote: post #13

I completely disagree. I'm building a business, and this business will be based on excellent software and excellent support for that software. I will refuse to use AI. But instead of AI users taking my job, I'm sure that refusing to use AI will become my differentiator as every AI user becomes more and more like each other. You may think that good AI users will not become so bland, but they will. Human laziness will…

I think this is like people in the 90s saying they'll never use a mobile phone. Or that they didn't want this newfangled 'internet', because their desk phone, written letters and books are fine.

Sure there's some people still living like that in modern society but they are really rare. Yet in those days hearing this sentiment was really common.

Re: AI won't steal your job, people leveraging AI will

#66

Post by flandish » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 2:37 PM UTC

tosser0001 wrote: post #7

I'm not necessarily concerned that I will be entirely without a job because of AI. What I am concerned with is that the aspects of my job that I derive pleasure from will be replaced by AI.

This is important. Our relationship with those who pay is for labor is indeed “sold” as “do something you love and …” and frankly that does help people over time.

I love coding. Enough that I don’t want to age into being a director/manager, etc.

But what is important to understand is that from the other direction the owners of business only care about profit - they don’t care abt your love for parts of your work, except when they can gaslight and use it to keep you working. For them.

Remember when Dwight Scrute got 13 “employee of the month” awards in a single year because he got 2 in February in lieu of a raise?

That’s what I mean.

AI will be used by owners to either gaslight your love into using it for them, or possible remove what you love to be replaced by AI.

Which, for the record, is not “intelligent” any more than anything else in code.

Anything implemented is either to gaslight our love for this industry for profit, or to replace parts for profit.

It is no surprise at all.

Re: AI won't steal your job, people leveraging AI will

#67

Post by cal85 » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 2:37 PM UTC

jandrese wrote: post #40

snarf21 wrote: post #10

This is a nonsense headline. This is the equivalent of "Factory automation won't steal your job, companies that buy factory automation will." Democratization of AI tools will have upsides and downsides but non researchers weren't playing around with AI text/chat generation before this last round of simple to use tools came out.

My thought was it read exactly like "Guns don't kill people, people who squeeze the trigger kill people." Technically right in a specific context but completely misses the point.

What point does it miss?

Re: AI won't steal your job, people leveraging AI will

#68

Post by ipaddr » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 2:37 PM UTC

tricksforfree wrote: post #22

lolsowrong wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re an inspiration. I’m going to open an accounting firm and refuse to use calculators.

How often are calculators confidently wrong?

As often as people put in incorrect values. As often as someone goes beyond the range. Always when someone tries to add yellow to blue. Often when the wrong formula is used.

And in this case you don't get to put in the formula.

Re: AI won't steal your job, people leveraging AI will

#69

Post by Wowfunhappy » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 2:37 PM UTC

japhyr wrote: post #52

tricksforfree wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How often are calculators confidently wrong?

As a math teacher, this is such a funny comparison to keep reading. Yes, there's a difference between a deterministic outcome and a non-deterministic one. But throw humans into the loop, and it becomes more interesting. I can't count the number of times I've listened to someone argue their answer must be right because they got it from the calculator. And it's not just students; as a teacher I've always paid attention…

> I can't count the number of times I've listened to someone argue their answer must be right because they got it from the calculator.

Answers from calculators are always right! But the human may have asked the wrong question.

Re: AI won't steal your job, people leveraging AI will

#70

Post by rf15 » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 2:37 PM UTC

jmfldn wrote: post #44

gavinhoward wrote: post #13

I completely disagree. I'm building a business, and this business will be based on excellent software and excellent support for that software. I will refuse to use AI. But instead of AI users taking my job, I'm sure that refusing to use AI will become my differentiator as every AI user becomes more and more like each other. You may think that good AI users will not become so bland, but they will. Human laziness will…

I think the zero sum, "use AI everywhere" vs "don't use it at all" are both to be avoided. The wise path is somewhere in the middle. On avoiding it, if your competitors are getting massive productivity gains from AI tools, your hand-crafted, artisanal code is going to be expensive and your customers will vote with their wallets.

Exactly. I am absolutely no fan of the new AI products, and the only question you have to answer for yourself is: can you leverage this technology for what you are trying to do? For me the answer was "yes", and I now enjoy having copilot around to dynamically type boilerplate I'd need much longer to type and fill out myself.