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Finland Becomes a Member of NATO on Tuesday 4 April

presidentti.fi

61–70 of 218 posts

Re: Finland Becomes a Member of NATO on Tuesday 4 April

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand who you think is to blame here? Was NATO supposed to accept Ukraine without Ukraine applying for membership?

[flagged]

How much has been spent on the Ukraine Russia conflict that could’ve been avoided if Russia had feared a NATO response (assuming existing Ukraine membership)? Avoided spending that now must be spent to defang Russia. The numbers I’ve seen thrown around are $100B+ in conflict cost. Cheaper to have done the paperwork and meetings imho, not to mention the exceptional loss of life in aggregate.

Re: Finland Becomes a Member of NATO on Tuesday 4 April

#62

Excellent. Very much hope that enough pressure can be applied at all levels to ensure that Sweden is also soon approved by all NATO member states.

I don't think that's necessarily a good idea. Ignoring the fact that no country should be pressured to accept becoming allies with some other country they don't like, what would Sweden expect from Turkey if, say, Russia invades?

Re: Finland Becomes a Member of NATO on Tuesday 4 April

#63
post #52
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That ... is the world where we live in, more or less. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_states_with_nuclear_we... > Under NATO nuclear weapons sharing, the United States has provided nuclear weapons for Belgium, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands, and Turkey to deploy and store

Do these countries actually have the launch codes though?

Nope, they only store them. Just like Ukr did for Russia back in the 80's and 90's.

Re: Finland Becomes a Member of NATO on Tuesday 4 April

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand who you think is to blame here? Was NATO supposed to accept Ukraine without Ukraine applying for membership?

[flagged]

Nobody is demanding anything of NATO. I am retroactively demanding that the Ukrainian leadership should have rooted out corruption and got Ukraine’s ducks in a row so that it could join NATO. And the whole point of NATO is that most smaller countries do not benefit NATO as much as the alliance benefits them. Yet the cumulative effect is more world peace.

Besides, did you not notice the effect the war in Ukraine had on things like gas prices in the US?

Re: Finland Becomes a Member of NATO on Tuesday 4 April

#65
post #6

"I must invade a neighboring country to prevent having NATO on my doorstep" - Vladimir Vladimirovich, master strategist "Whoa, if countries are annexed willy nilly then we better join NATO before it happens to us" - Every single one of those doorsteps

It was never about NATO. It's about the Bessarabian Gap and the Black Sea. Putin wants the potential invasion routes into Russia.

Re: Finland Becomes a Member of NATO on Tuesday 4 April

#67

Excellent. Very much hope that enough pressure can be applied at all levels to ensure that Sweden is also soon approved by all NATO member states.

I don't think that's necessarily a good idea. Ignoring the fact that no country should be pressured to accept becoming allies with some other country they don't like, what would Sweden expect from Turkey if, say, Russia invades?

The same as Turkey would expect of Sweden if, say, Russia invades.

Please stop thinking that Turkey (or any other country) is doing a favor to Sweden (or to Finland) by accepting their NATO application. It benefits all parties - Russians included.

Re: Finland Becomes a Member of NATO on Tuesday 4 April

#68
post #6

"I must invade a neighboring country to prevent having NATO on my doorstep" - Vladimir Vladimirovich, master strategist "Whoa, if countries are annexed willy nilly then we better join NATO before it happens to us" - Every single one of those doorsteps

Aggressive war is inexcusable and I condemn all nations that engage in it including Russia and the United States. Ukraine has a right to its sovereignty just as all other nations do, but what you posted is shallow thinking.

Look at a map of Europe, put yourself in the mind of a highly suspicious and pessimistic person and ask yourself "how would I invade Russia?" "how do I get an SRBM or MRBM within striking range of Moscow?" "how do I increase my ability to have Russian speaking agents plausibly cross into and out of Russia?"

Now put yourself in the mind of someone else seeking power and look at the map and, keeping an eye to history, ask yourself "what is the most effective way to destabilize Russia without involving US forces?"

Both parties are playing a very dangerous game that has a non-zero chance of ending with a nuclear exchange, limited or not. If peace was the goal then both sides need to agree to an immediate ceasefire and withdrawal of both military and political forces. A new agreement needs to be reached that places Ukraine as a neutral, sovereign country and both sides should pay for reconstruction efforts and restitution to survivors. Of course, peace is never the goal.

Re: Finland Becomes a Member of NATO on Tuesday 4 April

#69
Long overdue, but better late than never. Although the circumstances are grim due to the war in Ukraine, I’m happy we can be in alliance with our European and Northern American kin (and hopefully Sweden will follow suit soon once the wrinkles in relations with the countries stalling get process get sorted out, so we can get on with further integrating our defences both within Nordics and the Baltian countries). Thank you for our new allies for the trust.

Re: Finland Becomes a Member of NATO on Tuesday 4 April

#70
post #40

This is an excellent deal for Finland, whose sovereignty is protected. Is it the same for the US? Do I want an attack against Finland to be considered an attack against the US? An attack against the US can unleash the end of humanity. I find very risky to leave this at the whims of some out of touch Russian dictator.

Don't be so condescending - Finland is one of the few countries that successfully resisted a Russian invasion. It is very much capable of protecting itself, much more so than Ukraine (which is also doing it, albeit with significant support from the west). The NATO (and the US actually) benefits a lot by Finland joining, and will benefit from Sweden joining too - only a matter of time.

>Finland is one of the few countries that successfully resisted a Russian invasion.

While the Finns absolutely kicked the Soviets' asses in the Winter War, they actually did lose the war a ceded territory to the USSR.

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