Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

france24.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

461–470 of 571 posts

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#461

Post by ChrisRR »

jjgreen wrote: post #314
ChrisRR wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear so often from people who were "nearly" mown down, but barely ever from someone who was actually mown down

For Isabelle Vanbrabant, any regulations are too late. The pianist at Paris’s famed opera was coming home from work last month and walking across a square near Les Halles when a rider on an electric scooter came up from behind, knocking her over and continuing on his way. She fell on her right arm, suffering multiple fractures. She yelled for the rider to return, which he then did, and to call for help. However, her…

I don't doubt that there are plenty of examples of people being hit by scooters, and there's definitely even more examples of people being hit by cars.

But I mean whenever people are giving their anecdotal evidence as to why they don't want scooters it's always because they were "almost" hit, I'd never read a comment from someone who was actually hit and almost is very subjective.

When considering something like this we should really be looking at the data, rather than yelling about people who were almost hit

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#462

Post by zoltrix303 »

dijit wrote: post #305
elric wrote: post #287

I wonder if there have been any social studies done regarding the apparent sense of entitlement that comes with operating any kind of vehicle. E-scooters are an absolute menace nearly everywhere I've seen them being used, with their operators weaving between pedestrians and cars alike, and littering the kerb when unused. But the same is often true for bicycles, especially the fast electric kind, and it's certainly tr…

It's also a problem of shared spaces. Pedestrians and Bikes are a poor mix. Bikes and Cars are a poor mix. but scooters and bikes seem to mix quite well. Malmo, Sweden; where I live, has excellent cycling infrastructure and the scooter "problem" is really miniscule. There are still issues, people parking in stupid ways or taking scooters into pedestrian areas, but overall there are significantly more dangerous driver…

The problem with Paris really is in the lack of respect for pedestrians space. Motorcycles often park on the sidewalk, and most of the time the side walk has an area monopolized by motorcycle. Since motorcycles have to drive from and to these "parking" spaces, you very often end up with pedestrians and motorcycles inches appart.

This simply creates a very blurry line between spared spaces. It's not surprising that e-scooters simply ride on the sidewalk and are a hasard, when the motorcycles themselves also do.

The other problem is the streets are old and often have brick sections. ok if you're a car, annoying on a bike, almost unbearable with the small wheels of the scooters. Often they ride on the sidewalk with is a but less bumpy.

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#463

Post by petodo »

Toutouxc wrote: post #427
jonasdegendt wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blame your government for not creating adequate bike lanes or curbing car usage, instead of people just trying to get around. Nobody wants to be in each others way, it's just that most of the time cyclists have nowhere else to go.

E-scooter (my own) rider from Prague: the cycling infrastructure here ranges from okay to pretty-nice-actually, and it's slowly getting better, so that's good, but there's a LOT of drunk tourists using the rental e-scooters in the [medieval, cramped] center.

nah, it ranges from non-existent (for most of the city roads/streets) to okay, most of the roads dont have bike lane at all since all available place where they could be is taken by parking spots

also there is no point for (e)scooters in Prague considering trams, buses and subway operating everywhere for less than a 0.5USD per day for unlimited travel, which is why pretty much no locals use them, they are also pretty much impossible to use in extended city center with cobble stones

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#464

Post by seszett »

wcoenen wrote: post #456
seszett wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure what this has to do with e-scooters in Paris though. Disregarding red pedestrian traffic lights is the norm in France, they are seen as indicative: green means you can pass regardless of traffic as you have absolute priority, red means you must pay attention to cars but you are still allowed to cross and the law supports that. "Jaywalking" doesn't exist in France and pedestrians can basically cross where…

> pedestrians can basically cross wherever and whenever they want The "code the la route" article R413-38 says otherwise: Lorsque la traversée d'une chaussée est réglée par ces feux, les piétons ne doivent s'engager qu'au feu vert. https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/codes/article_lc/LEGIARTI0000...

The rest of the sentence was "it's a bit more complicated than that, but not by much".

The law also says that pedestrians can be fined all of 4 euros for crossing at red and they have no responsibility in the case of an accident, which means in practice there are no consequences for crossing at red. As long as you check that you aren't going to be run over by a car, which people do. They cross at red if there are no cars.

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#465

Post by elric »

wink wrote: post #440
elric wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's true that infrastructure has evolved over decades. Though bicycles predate cars, and for various reasons we (as a society) decided to fuck bicycles and pander to cars. I'm not sure if the ownership vs rental argument holds much water. Bicycles routinely litter the kerb (and every other surface imaginable), even though they are usually owned rather than rented. Perhaps it's because they're relatively cheap? Or ma…

Maybe it depends what you see as "littering" - when I'm talking the city center here, without bike racks, people 99% line them up against the walls of the houses, or lock them on to streets signs, which are usually ~30cm from the curb next to the cars. I honestly can't remember when an actual non-rental, personal bike was in my way, so does not seem to be problem here, at all. If you define "they're all standing ther…

I guess that depends on where you live, which takes us back to this being an infrastructure problem after all. Where I live, if you're lucky, the kerb is 1m wide, and half of that width is often occupied by bikes (or scooters). Making things difficult for pedestrians, and impossible for wheelchair users.

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#466

Post by WJW »

will5421 wrote: post #452
saiya-jin wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even at random stranger cars (which I expect to be the case, you don't throw stones on cars of people you actually know, not under normal circumstances)? Ie I am a tourist and driving around and I like some older parts of town. What is it with people generally that make them feel above others, forcing their viewpoints on everybody else as the only truth? People should generally travel far and exotic more, it changes…

> What is it with people generally that make them feel above others, forcing their viewpoints on everybody else as the only truth? I honestly thought you were talking about the car drivers, until your next sentence. > People should generally travel far and exotic more, it changes folks for the better rather than their own micro echo chambers Travelling like this is a luxury. The views of those who can't afford this l…

The people throwing the stones could easily afford to travel outside their own neighborhood in Jerusalem, Tiberias or Tzefat though, they just choose not to because there are non-Jews there.

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#467

Post by jjgreen »

ChrisRR wrote: post #461
jjgreen wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For Isabelle Vanbrabant, any regulations are too late. The pianist at Paris’s famed opera was coming home from work last month and walking across a square near Les Halles when a rider on an electric scooter came up from behind, knocking her over and continuing on his way. She fell on her right arm, suffering multiple fractures. She yelled for the rider to return, which he then did, and to call for help. However, her…

I don't doubt that there are plenty of examples of people being hit by scooters, and there's definitely even more examples of people being hit by cars. But I mean whenever people are giving their anecdotal evidence as to why they don't want scooters it's always because they were "almost" hit, I'd never read a comment from someone who was actually hit and almost is very subjective. When considering something like this…

I've certainly almost been hit by scooters on the pavement, annoying but not scary since I'm reasonably fit, a hit probably wouldn't cause me that much of an injury (with luck). But if you're old and fragile, that's a broken hip and 6-9 months immobile when you've not much time left, that could reasonably scare the crap out of you and make you scared to go outside. "Almost hit" has consequences too.

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#468

Post by camillomiller »

concordDance wrote: post #195
camillomiller wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And why exactly shouldn’t people that live there have a democratic vote and have a say?

Those 12 year who suddenly got mobility and then suddenly lost it had no say. These paws are voted on exclusively by the elderly for complex reasons.

So those 12 years old are "entitled" to mobility how, and why would they be entitled to driving such a vehicle from a private company, for which you need to understand the concept of insurance and personal damage responsibility, at an age that wouldn't allow them to drive basically anything else than their personal bike?

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#469

Post by simplotek »

mnw21cam wrote: post #445
simplotek wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Funnily enough we have the exact opposite in the UK. Private scooters banned, rental scooters laying all over the pavement. What's the rationale behind this nonsense?

The official reason is insurance, and ensuring a small trial area. Basically, in UK law, the scooters count as motor vehicles, and therefore must have a licence, which they can't for other reasons. So, they're illegal to ride on the pavement because they're motorised, and they're illegal to ride on the road because they're uninsured and unlicensed. There are a few trial areas where companies are providing insured sco…

> So, they're illegal to ride on the pavement because they're motorised, and they're illegal to ride on the road because they're uninsured and unlicensed.

It sounds like these issues are artificial legal constructs caused by the law lagging behind where technology js, and it would be trivial to fix them.

For instance, I'm sure insurance companies would be eager to offer escooter insurance.

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#470

Post by thefz »

bluescrn wrote: post #288
ostenning wrote: post #260

Great, lets now move to ban them from other EU capitals. Its an issue in Berlin, so many youths ride these scooters recklessly on footpaths, hurting pedestrians or worse.

'E-scooters have safety risks, let's encourage people back into 2-ton fossil-fuel-burning cars instead!' If we want a future of EVs, we need to figure out how to include personal light EVs, not just very expensive full-size-car replacements for the wealthy.

"e-scooters" produce an ungodly amount of battery waste.
Post reply on HN