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Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

france24.com

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Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#451

Post by tuetuopay »

franky47 wrote: post #340
bjackman wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My market-supremacist response: I wish that instead of banning them they just fixed the negative externalities: a system where anyone can report a poorly parked scooter to the city govt and the owner of the scooter receives a significant fine. That way the market will soon be forced to find a solution to parking enforcement, or stop renting out scooters. In the former case we keep the benefits of scooters. In the lat…

I'll raise you on the report and propose that scooters should report themselves when badly parked. Unless incentivised, nobody would report bad parking, or it could be abused and whatnot. Most of them already have a GPS system for fleet tracking (takes care of where it's parked), and an accelerometer would easily detect those laying on their side (plus fall detection for added marketing benefit).

They actually block parking outside of dedicated spots using the GPS. So you have to be in one to end the trip.

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#452

Post by will5421 »

saiya-jin wrote: post #365
WJW wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well. You are legally allowed to drive a car around, but will still get stones thrown at your car if you do so in an ultra-orthodox neighborhood.

Even at random stranger cars (which I expect to be the case, you don't throw stones on cars of people you actually know, not under normal circumstances)? Ie I am a tourist and driving around and I like some older parts of town. What is it with people generally that make them feel above others, forcing their viewpoints on everybody else as the only truth? People should generally travel far and exotic more, it changes…

> What is it with people generally that make them feel above others, forcing their viewpoints on everybody else as the only truth?

I honestly thought you were talking about the car drivers, until your next sentence.

> People should generally travel far and exotic more, it changes folks for the better rather than their own micro echo chambers

Travelling like this is a luxury. The views of those who can't afford this luxury should be protected over the views of those who can.

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#453

Post by xpl »

dolmen wrote: post #421
xpl wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Since it's a rental, nobody wears a helmet and almost everybody drives them irresponsibly In Tel Aviv, all rental scooters come with helmets, and wearing a helmet is actually enforced by the police. Also they are banned from riding on sidewalks. So it seems to be just a regulation/enforcement problem, not intrinsical to scooters themselves or being rental or private.

> So it seems to be just a regulation/enforcement problem But it is less costly for the cities to remove the problem (ban e-scooter) that to hire people to chase bad e-scooter behavior. Especially if many users of those e-scooter are tourists who will bring back home a bad souvenir of their trip if they get fined.

> But it is less costly for the cities to remove the problem

It does not remove the problem but would simply transfer it elsewhere. In result, either people become significantly less mobile, or they get more used to cars, creating huge traffic jams and polluting cities with noise and fumes.

With scooter, one can get to any point of the city in 15 minutes max and basically for free compared to taxi. It has a huge value for the city economy, and worth the regulators' time.

> tourists who will bring back home a bad souvenir of their trip if they get fined

If you are caught for the first time, you'll just get a warning. So not an issue for a tourist.

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#454

Post by walthamstow »

np- wrote: post #437
pasc1878 wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are American aren't you. This is how normal people use lights in the rest of the world. If it is green walk. If it is red - look around and if it is reasonably safe walk. Jaywalking is not a rule or anything like it. The UK highway Code has recently been changed so that pedestrians have right od way over cars turning into a side street (although not if controlled by traffic lights)

Not just an American thing, try jaywalking in Germany, they consider it so offensive that even some mothers will shield their children’s eyes to prevent them seeing you do it. You must be British, thinking you speak for the world ;)

After just two days in Vienna I changed from my London crossing style to the local style. The social pressure was just too great.

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#455

Post by slowmotiony »

regularjack wrote: post #442
robbywashere_ wrote: post #439

What's the alternative for short distance traveling then? Honest question. Does one hail a cab? Or ride hailing apps still banned or looked down on?

On foot, metro, bike, bus. Paris probably has one of the best metro networks in the world.

Its also one of the most sketchy and dangerous. If you hop on an escooter, you're not going to find a homeless dude there jerking off, there's no vomit anywhere, noone will assault your wife and you're not getting stabbed nor mugged. Can't say the same about the Paris metro.

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#456

Post by wcoenen »

seszett wrote: post #393
wcoenen wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whenever I visit Paris as a tourist, I have another impression. Each time I stop, as a pedestrian, to wait for a traffic light to turn green, grumbling Parisians walk around me and cross the street with complete disregard for the red light. (I'm not sure I've ever even seen a Parisian pedestrian waiting for a traffic light. They might wait for traffic to clear a bit, but not until there's a green light.) So to me, it…

I'm not sure what this has to do with e-scooters in Paris though. Disregarding red pedestrian traffic lights is the norm in France, they are seen as indicative: green means you can pass regardless of traffic as you have absolute priority, red means you must pay attention to cars but you are still allowed to cross and the law supports that. "Jaywalking" doesn't exist in France and pedestrians can basically cross where…

> pedestrians can basically cross wherever and whenever they want

The "code the la route" article R413-38 says otherwise:

Lorsque la traversée d'une chaussée est réglée par ces feux, les piétons ne doivent s'engager qu'au feu vert.

https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/codes/article_lc/LEGIARTI0000...

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#457

Post by slowmotiony »

jen729w wrote: post #109
twelve40 wrote: post #16

> She said on Sunday that their business model was "very expensive -- five euros for 10 minutes -- it's not very sustainable, and above all, it's the cause of a lot of accidents." It must be great to have a wise mayor in the government who calls out "expensive business models". > currently be hired by children as young as 12 When I went there, I read the Lime, Dott, etc rules and they all said 16, some 18+. Where did…

> When I went there, I read the Lime, Dott, etc rules and they all said 16, some 18+. Where did they get 12 yo from? Kids find a way. I live in Canberra, Australia. We have a couple of competing e-scooter hire companies. They're pretty good. There are always kids on them.

Kids "find a way" to have a working credit card? Maybe that's on their parents then...?

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#458

Post by arp242 »

bjackman wrote: post #263
franky47 wrote: post #185

One major annoyance with these e-scooters is their "take it from anywhere, leave it anywhere" rental model. Sure, it's practical for the user, but it litters the pavement for everyone else with scooters badly parked, sometimes even lying on their side on the floor, requiring teams of maintenance people to patrol the streets (with petrol trucks) and set them back up in an orderly fashion and grouped at strategic locat…

My market-supremacist response: I wish that instead of banning them they just fixed the negative externalities: a system where anyone can report a poorly parked scooter to the city govt and the owner of the scooter receives a significant fine. That way the market will soon be forced to find a solution to parking enforcement, or stop renting out scooters. In the former case we keep the benefits of scooters. In the lat…

Government stepping in with regulations and fines is of course not "market-supremacist" :-) Or: I think you and GP actually agree that we can't "just" leave it up to the market 100% and that we also need someone to look out for the public interest (which usually means the government).

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#459

Post by apichat »

Fradow wrote: post #272

Parisian here, for context I've been cycling to work for about 10 years now (before Paris transformed into a cycle-friendly city). There are a lot of speculations and hypothesis from people who don't live in Paris and try to apply their experience in a different city to Paris, so allow me to offer the experience (obviously I'm biased) of someone living there. The first big misconception is that this ban is only due t…

> The real reason is that anytime you see someone egregiously disregarding rules in a way that endanger others, it's more often than not a rental e-scooter, with rental e-bikes coming behind. They are perceived as dangerous, plain and simple. And it's not a lack of cycling infrastructure. While it's not up to Netherlands-level of bike-friendliness yet, it's quite good lately overall.

Parisian too, but with reality in mind. We should first reduced by 95% the amount of cars and ban taxis :

Cars, Taxis and Motorcycle killed thousands of people in Paris due to there toxic gases. https://www.francebleu.fr/infos/transports/a-paris-la-pollut...

More than 95% of people killed on the road are due to Cars, Taxis, Trucks or Motorcycle. https://www.drieat.ile-de-france.developpement-durable.gouv....

More than 95% of serious injuries are caused by Cars, Taxis, Trucks or Motorcycle. https://www.onisr.securite-routiere.gouv.fr/sites/default/fi...

50% of the streets are congested with cars and car parking. https://www.lemonde.fr/les-decodeurs/article/2016/11/30/a-pa...

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#460

Post by pharmakom »

dolmen wrote: post #411
Symbiote wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Outer Hebrides (islands) of Scotland had a similar situation. The ferry used not to run on Sundays, and there were protests when Sunday service began. However, the airport operated flights on Sunday, so if you could afford it you could still e.g. visit family for the weekend and return to the mainland in time for work on Monday. There are still no buses on Sunday, although there seem to be very few Monday-Saturda…

The religious indoctrination is that people (including bus drivers or ferry operators) should have a rest day with their family (everybody has the same rest day). Whether it is really religious or just good sense is left to your appreciation.

Usually companies establish a rotation where some work Saturday and some work Sunday but nobody works both.
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