What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide • Hacker News Board

Re: What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide

#661

Post by enigma20 » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 7:04 AM UTC

beebeepka wrote: post #532

ricardobayes wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This case is different though, 75k is a very, very good salary in Germany so if they can't find rent with that then they are looking at the wrong properties. 75k is great but it won't buy luxury penthouses (same as everywhere else in the world.) If OP is telling me they can't find a normal 2 bed apartment in Munich on a 100k (assuming) income something is wrong in their search or their expectations.

Are these numbers pre or post taxes?

Most likely pre tax. In software development range will be probably 70-95k euro, for mid to senior dev in a big city. After all taxes, contributions you are getting around 60% of this.

So mentioned 75k, will be 40k net.

I live right outside a big city. Here 50 sqm in quite a new building costs 1200 monthly.

Re: What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide

#662

Post by brailsafe » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 7:58 AM UTC

reducesuffering wrote: post #652

brailsafe wrote: post #647

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For Vancouver's geography to be a legitimate concern, we would have needed to maximize what we could do with the existing land, and it's very, very far from that. I would argue the latter 2 arguments have some bearing, but imo it's more about cheap capital coming in from many directions including locally for so long in combination with artificially choked and inflated development processes for decades. For example, t…

The geography wouldn't be a problem if maximizing use of the land was done. You point out the choked development processes, but other open geography locales would still have those bureaucratic problems in cases and yet just sprawl out elsewhere, reducing prices. Take a look at Houston, Dallas Fort-Worth, Calgary, Edmonton metros. There is a reason those metros have retained low housing prices while they have grown so…

Meh, the greater Vancouver area including the adjacent cities have sprawled as far as they can and continue to do so; there's actually quite a lot of development happening in some of those suburbs, and they can be just lovely. The other cities you mention—if they've kept prices low—they're embracing an obviously horrible development pattern that only works because they have oil money and it hasn't collapsed yet. Smaller, less-resource-rich cities like Winnipeg have tried the same thing and literally couldn't afford to maintain their own infrastructure if all they had to pay for was road maintenance. Yes, you can buy a $400k condo there, but as they come to terms with the rate they're reaching insolvency, they'll need to find a way to very quickly turn what are already near the highest property taxes in the country, into 2-3x that number.

The geography is a constraint, the problem is failure to embrace the constraint in any sensible way. Prairie cities would be more economically productive and less horrible in my opinion if they halted outward expansion decades ago and just figured out how to adapt correctly.

Re: What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide

#663

Post by twixfel » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 8:23 AM UTC

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #602

twixfel wrote: post #597

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't regret my choice, I met a nice woman here and I have a good job. But I don't adopt the unambiguous slave mentality that you advocate and I have my eyes more open about the country's problems than you. >Venting on the internet that the country you voluntarily moved to doesn't give you the special treatment you were expecting, is just laughable and pointless. Yes, and unrolling the red white and black in defenc…

>But I don't adopt the unambiguous slave mentality that you advocate Sorry, but equating integrating and being assimilated into a developed country to having a "slave mentality" is complete horeshit and makes you look completely out of touch with reality if this is how you see things. >unrolling the red white and black in defence of the Reich Where the hell did you come up with this? I never said anything like this.…

So strange to meet a German ultranationalist who claims to not even be German. Truly a unique experience, you may even be the only such person who exists on the planet. Thank you for sharing yourself with us.

Re: What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide

#664

Post by hutzlibu » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 9:36 AM UTC

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #659

hutzlibu wrote: post #625

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" I was a foreigner in east Germany and never experienced any hate directed towards me because I'm different." Yeah well, how is your skin color and looks then? Western? Then why would there be hate towards you?

I'm definitely not white "BIO-Deutsch" looking if that's what you're asking. But you still haven't told me exactly how the hate has manifested towards your half latino girlfriend in East Germany. From my findings I find a lot of people are just snowflakes that exagerate the perceived hate towards them, for example if the waiter, service worker, bus driver, etc. was rude or mean to them, they immediately assume people…

Examples?

Hooligans blocking the entrance of the train:

"Your kind cannot come in."

(Not "nobody" but specifically her)

Or in another instance blocking it, from going out: "You cannot go out here"

Children in rural village: "you don't belong here"

And then we have spitting. Bad looks. Cashiers being friendly to me, but very unfriendly to her (when they don't notice we are connected, but she speaks a very good german). Etc.

That is just racism and not "east german friendliness"

East german friendliness would be the sentence on a shirt I saw in Görlitz (very eastern city):

"I don't have prejudice, I hate everyone"

That's the "normal" friendliness in some areas, but in most areas (especially also Görlitz), they canalize that hate and frustration towards anything different.

So not everything is bad here, otherwise we would not still live here, but we explicitely live in a no nazi village, so kind of in a bubble. But we do regulary think of moving away, so no, in general foreigners do not live here just fine. And most, especially those with a really dark skin, have it way harder than we. For example we didn't got any death letter yet.

Re: What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide

#665

Post by ricardobayes » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 10:30 AM UTC

midasuni wrote: post #522

andrepd wrote: post #506

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The flip-side of this is that all the "expats" (not immigrants :)) and "digital nomads" are outbidding the locals and pushing up prices for them. If you think it's bad renting a house in Munich on a German salary, imagine renting a house in Lisbon (similar or higher prices) on a Portuguese salary.

The solution to this is of course land value tax, distributed to citizens in a dividend. The gains from the land value go to the citizens of the country, not the private speculators who add nothing.

I'd argue Spain doesn't have a property crisis exactly because speculators and developers. There is lots of housing stock available. I don't know any single EU country which has ready to live in apartments listed at 20k EUR. The problem is everywhere from the US to Europe, is that there is simply not enough housing available. Blaming speculators is blaming a symptom.

Re: What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide

#666

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 12:58 PM UTC

amrocha wrote: post #632

dangwhy wrote: post #560

Earlier quoted context omitted.

of-course, You are free to think that. Making absolute statements based on your gut feelings has no place in rational thinking.

Killing people is bad is not a feeling. I'm sure you can find some rational logic to justify it, but that doesn't make it ok, it just makes you feel less bad about it.

[deleted]

Re: What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide

#667

Post by dangwhy » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 1:04 PM UTC

amrocha wrote: post #632

dangwhy wrote: post #560

Earlier quoted context omitted.

of-course, You are free to think that. Making absolute statements based on your gut feelings has no place in rational thinking.

Killing people is bad is not a feeling. I'm sure you can find some rational logic to justify it, but that doesn't make it ok, it just makes you feel less bad about it.

when you or your family member die in a waiting list.

https://secondstreet.org/2022/12/13/waiting-list-deaths-surg...

All your philosophy and shallow responses like "not true" will go out the window in a second . You will understand what quality means when your family cannot have that life saving drug that's been available in USA for years or has to die early from cancer because they couldn't get radiation in time.

Ofcourse any troll can pretend on the internet that they will sacrifice their child to cancer wait times because their healthcare system is objectively better .

Re: What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide

#668

Post by amrocha » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 3:20 PM UTC

dangwhy wrote: post #667

amrocha wrote: post #632

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Killing people is bad is not a feeling. I'm sure you can find some rational logic to justify it, but that doesn't make it ok, it just makes you feel less bad about it.

when you or your family member die in a waiting list. https://secondstreet.org/2022/12/13/waiting-list-deaths-surg... All your philosophy and shallow responses like "not true" will go out the window in a second . You will understand what quality means when your family cannot have that life saving drug that's been available in USA for years or has to die early from cancer because they couldn't get radiation in time. O…

Stop strawmanning. I already acknowledged Canada's system needs to be better.

Waitlists can be solved. A system that is fundamentally discriminatory can't.

I'm glad you got the care you needed, but in order for you to get that care several others were discriminated against and denied care. That's a failure of the system. No matter how good the care you got was, the system failed.

Re: What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide

#669

Post by alfnor » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 3:28 PM UTC

chewz wrote: post #437

TulliusCicero wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It seems like it's the same story everywhere I look. Housing is the main driver of inequality and there is little change happening. It's a way of transferring money from younger adults to older adults, and older adults vote. It's basically an intergenerational pyramid scheme where each generation pays to the previous one, and each time they pay more. Of course, like any pyramid scheme, you can only keep it up so lo…

> It's a way of transferring money from younger adults to older adults, and older adults vote. Always makes me wonder where these younger adults come from? Don't they have parents who invested their saving in a few apartments for rent? Can't they get some financial help from their parents?

> Don't they have parents who invested their saving in a few apartments for rent?

Is this satire? Big "How can you be homeless? Just buy a house!" energy.

Re: What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide

#670

Post by cudgy » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 3:39 PM UTC

illiarian wrote: post #639

cudgy wrote: post #626

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That you have more shops than one. More restaurants than one. Theaters. Clubs. Sports. Connectivity. Places and activities for kids. Places for hobbies. Concerts. Other various activities and events. Then open a shop, start a restaurant, start a theatre group, gather some kids for sports, organize some concerts, and become an active member of your community, instead of expecting it to be handed to you on a platter.

So I've opened a shop. Now waht? Are you in all seriousness telling me that a small town can provide the same amount of things as a big city? You'll run out of people long before you get on par with what a big city offers.

Maybe you missed the whole discussion which was stemmed from complaints about big cities and the frustration many people are finding with being able to save any money, purchase or rent a suitable home, live in a safe neighborhood, avoid long commutes, or raise a family.

Life is more than just buying lots of stuff and experiences from other people in big cities. Giving back to your community and allowing them to enjoy your talents should enter the equation too. Don’t always be a taker.