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Pursuing status will never bring true happiness

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Re: Pursuing status will never bring true happiness

#121

Post by luckylion »

DesiLurker wrote: post #90
tqi wrote: post #55

On the one hand, sure, status probably is a trap and won't bring "true happiness." And I think this is well meaning advice. But on the other hand, I think it's possible that an Ivy League educated founder/VC partner/executive coach might not be in the best position to see the whole picture. To paraphrase the Aviator[1], you don't care about status because you've always had it. I think that for many people who have ex…

I'd argue they are probably in the best position to talk about the 'empty bowl' status is. I mean if you switch to the admin-view for a moment, status is basically the increasingly rare thing that others cant have by definition. that is statistically impossibly for commoners to have. and their advice of seeking contentment can/is always countered with 'sour grapes' style retort. We need more calming message from peop…

"Money won't buy you happiness", said the billionaire. But how does that calming message really help the guy who'll get evicted because he won't have enough money for rent?

I don't think we need these messages. They're a mix of humble brag, virtue signalling and self-marketing for all I can tell, and don't hold any insights that you won't find on one of those One Inspirational Quote Per Day calendars.

Re: Pursuing status will never bring true happiness

#123

Post by philip142au »

Status and money is essential, people with high status make good money, and you need it just to get to retirement, money that is. I do not like X good think will not bring happiness, its a pattern of X where X = working hard, money, status, etc does not bring happiness. Its dangerous and bad to teach people to be anything other than selfish in a constructive way.

Re: Pursuing status will never bring true happiness

#124

Post by dotsam »

Most things are tied up with status games, even if they don't look like it at first glance.

Nietzsche gives the example of the self-renouncer, who might seem to go beyond status games by renouncing material things. But this renunciation of one status game is just replaced by another. It's the same desire for status, but aimed at a different object. The self-renouncer's object is the status of being seen as the exalted person who soars above everyone else, free from vulgar worldly desires.

> What does the self-renouncer do? He strives after a higher world, he wants to fly longer and further and higher than all men of affirmation—he throws away many things that would burden his flight, and several things among them that are not valueless, that are not unpleasant to him: he sacrifices them to his desire for elevation. Now this sacrificing, this casting away, is the very thing which becomes visible in him: on that account one calls him the self-renouncer, and as such he stands before us, enveloped in his cowl, and as the soul of a hair-shirt. With this effect, however, which he makes upon us he is well content: he wants to keep concealed from us his desire, his pride, his intention of flying above us.—Yes! He is wiser than we thought, and so courteous towards us—this affirmer! For that is what he is, like us, even in his self-renunciation

I can recommend the book The Status Game by Will Storr if you want to read more about status.

Re: Pursuing status will never bring true happiness

#125

Post by hoseja »

throwawaysleep wrote: post #79
apsurd wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

best security is not obviously money. i wouldnt know of course, but there's a good scene that covers this in the first(ish) season of House of Cards: Kevin Spaceys character laments about otherwise excellent talent shortsightedly chasing the $$$ of the private sector jobs rather than strategically climbing the ladder of Capital Hill. All this to say, his point is broadly that influence and power can always find a way…

Frank obtains power, not security.

What is the difference.

Re: Pursuing status will never bring true happiness

#126

Post by joenot443 »

dotsam wrote: post #124

Most things are tied up with status games, even if they don't look like it at first glance. Nietzsche gives the example of the self-renouncer, who might seem to go beyond status games by renouncing material things. But this renunciation of one status game is just replaced by another. It's the same desire for status, but aimed at a different object. The self-renouncer's object is the status of being seen as the exalte…

The Gospel teaches a similar idea with the notion of charity. Matthew 6:3

“But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth”

It helps if you’re familiar with the analysis, but I think the idea translates. The teaching being that if you’re going to be charitable, you shouldn’t do it as a means to advance your status. The people who give simply for recognition aren’t being charitable at all, they’re seeking status in the same way everyone else does.

Re: Pursuing status will never bring true happiness

#127

Post by throwaway22032 »

Well, there's a minimum acceptable bound for status. Not only in a social hierarchy, literally "status" in the sense of lifestyle and being.

A house, a car, a family. Most people want that. If they don't have that, they will almost certainly be unhappy. If they do have it, they may still be unhappy, but for different reasons.

The perversion is that somehow having basic 20th century necessities such as a house and a family is now seen as some sort of privilege. If you believe that, you've been brainwashed.

Strictly, yes, it doesn't flow from the stars, someone has to build and produce the structure, but ideas that people should simply be okay sharing accommodation / living in micro flats / eating bugs / foregoing children to 'save the planet' etc are simply misguided in a world in which a huge number of people (not some microscopic elite, but like, half of the UK, US, etc) have more than that and treat more than that as being a basic standard.

Re: Pursuing status will never bring true happiness

#128

Post by throwaway22032 »

DesiLurker wrote: post #90
tqi wrote: post #55

On the one hand, sure, status probably is a trap and won't bring "true happiness." And I think this is well meaning advice. But on the other hand, I think it's possible that an Ivy League educated founder/VC partner/executive coach might not be in the best position to see the whole picture. To paraphrase the Aviator[1], you don't care about status because you've always had it. I think that for many people who have ex…

I'd argue they are probably in the best position to talk about the 'empty bowl' status is. I mean if you switch to the admin-view for a moment, status is basically the increasingly rare thing that others cant have by definition. that is statistically impossibly for commoners to have. and their advice of seeking contentment can/is always countered with 'sour grapes' style retort. We need more calming message from peop…

As someone who has been both poor and relatively well off, the main thing is that you gain enormous stability and comfort from things like owning a home and having sufficient financial ability to choose what to do.

For example - "I choose to take the kids to school and then do some woodworking today".

The fancy cars, big houses, exotic vacations aren't that great. The lack of slavery is.

Re: Pursuing status will never bring true happiness

#129

Post by [deleted] »

jgil wrote: post #97
julianeon wrote: post #50

I think there was a historical change that has complicated our conversation about status. In the 50's, the peak of this, it seemed like many people got a 'deal' that went something like this: you & your work colleagues could afford a house, car, and the costs associated with several children, starting in your 20's. All of those things at a pretty high level actually (ie not a terrible unsafe house, not a broken down…

> it seemed like many people got a ‘deal’ > So while in the 50's, the advantages to being more high status seemed almost cosmetic, today, they're anything but. The “deal” you are referring to was largely codified racism. [1] And only cosmetic inasmuch as being granted pollution-free, affordable housing based on skin color would be considered “cosmetic.” [1] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-09-02/how-the-f…

[deleted]

Re: Pursuing status will never bring true happiness

#130

Post by dotsam »

joenot443 wrote: post #126
dotsam wrote: post #124

Most things are tied up with status games, even if they don't look like it at first glance. Nietzsche gives the example of the self-renouncer, who might seem to go beyond status games by renouncing material things. But this renunciation of one status game is just replaced by another. It's the same desire for status, but aimed at a different object. The self-renouncer's object is the status of being seen as the exalte…

The Gospel teaches a similar idea with the notion of charity. Matthew 6:3 “But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth” It helps if you’re familiar with the analysis, but I think the idea translates. The teaching being that if you’re going to be charitable, you shouldn’t do it as a means to advance your status. The people who give simply for recognition aren’t being charitable at al…

Isn't 'giving according to the teachings of the Gospel' achieving another kind of status (in your own heart, in the eyes of God)?
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