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The roots of Japan's Indian curry

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Re: The roots of Japan's Indian curry

#161

Post by j45 »

dagmx wrote: post #138
unmole wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That doesn’t mean the dish is “curry”. Is this supposed to be some metaphysical argument? The dish is literally chicken curry i.e. kodi kura .

The point is: - curry is used in Britain (and any place they colonized) to refer to any and all spiced gravy, not just sauce. - Kari in Tamil (widely considered to be the root of the word curry) refers to a dark, spiced sauce. It doesn’t mention it’s a gravy and it likely referred to a black peppercorn based sauce. It is simply an element of a dish like a bechamel. It is not a dish by itself. - kodi kura is a specifi…

Going for a curry in the racist 70s and 80s England is worth asking folks who lived through it how much it swept through mainstream society .

Re: The roots of Japan's Indian curry

#162

Post by danans »

cuteboy19 wrote: post #131
danans wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And it goes way beyond Persian influence. vindaloo ~= Portuguese vinhalo (wine/vinegar flavored) Southeast asian ingredients introduced via trading empires based in South India (i.e. nutmeg). Tomatoes, chilies, potatoes, all pre-Columbian American products introduced to India by the Portuguese. Tea (from China by way of the British) Coffee (introduced even earlier than tea via the Arab trading networks via Yemen duri…

Tea in India came by way of land, before the British

It grew wild in Assam, but the widespread consumption across the Northern part of the subcontinent is a product of British rule.

https://www.thehindu.com/society/how-chai-arrived-in-india-1...

Re: The roots of Japan's Indian curry

#163

Post by unmole »

nkurz wrote: post #139
rayiner wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also, most Indian Restaurants in India, if not owned, are pretty much run (cooks, etc.) by Nepalese. And most "Chinese" restaurants by Bengalis. Of course, the "Chinese" food in India are, well, very very Indian-ised. A great many Indian restaurants in the US are also owned by Bengalis. I visited a Bangladeshi restaurant in Atlanta that was advertised as such. The owner mentioned that most of the Indian restaurants…

For those like me who were confused by this paragraph as I was, Bengalis are a single ethnicity that is split between the countries of India and Bangladesh. Practically all Bangladeshis are Bengalis, and 80% of them are Muslim. Most Indian Bengalis are Hindu. A more complete explanation can be found here: https://www.differencebetween.com/difference-between-bengal-... But looking this up still leaves me confused as t…

Bengalis on both sides of the Radcliffe Line speak the same language and share some aspects of culture. But there are still subgroups within them: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghoti_people

From what I've been told, Ghotis and Bangals have distinct culinary styles.

Tongue in cheek: Each group claims their cooking is better but I can't say I care for either of them.

Re: The roots of Japan's Indian curry

#164

Post by genocidicbunny »

grogenaut wrote: post #127
genocidicbunny wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is my problem with a lot of spiciness advertising around me (in America). It might just be a thing around here, but a lot of Indian or Thai restaurants have two separate heat scales, the 'normal' one, and the Indian or Thai one. One of the Thai restaurants that I used to frequent, for example, had a scale where 'spicy' was the same as 'Thai mild' and 'Thai spicy' would genuinely make your hair stand on end.

It takes so much buy in to get them to take you seriously on spice sometimes.

I don't blame them, and partially thank them. Far too many people are way too cavalier with ordering the spiciest dish and then blaming the restaurant for the dish not tasting good. Its also a lot easier to up the spice level on a dish than lower it. A curry that isn't spicy enough can be made spicier; A curry that is too spicy likely cannot be made milder.

Re: The roots of Japan's Indian curry

#165

Post by j45 »

danans wrote: post #97
j45 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of Indian dishes have Persian, Mughal influences.

And it goes way beyond Persian influence. vindaloo ~= Portuguese vinhalo (wine/vinegar flavored) Southeast asian ingredients introduced via trading empires based in South India (i.e. nutmeg). Tomatoes, chilies, potatoes, all pre-Columbian American products introduced to India by the Portuguese. Tea (from China by way of the British) Coffee (introduced even earlier than tea via the Arab trading networks via Yemen duri…

Nice List. The spice road wasn’t limited to spices.

Re: The roots of Japan's Indian curry

#166

Post by thesalsabear »

rawicki wrote: post #123
thesalsabear wrote: post #98

Why are Indians getting taught about Indian food?

From experience of traveling to many countries and talking with people about food - not everyone is interested in it. I've heard many bad recommendations or people surprised I know the dishes they have never tried. And that's okay.

But I read stuff like:

> Now to be clear, India has no such dish as a curry

from the "educators" here

Re: The roots of Japan's Indian curry

#167

Post by plaguehammer »

anuraj wrote: post #46

"Now to be clear, India has no such dish as a curry. No self-respecting Indian restaurant has a "curry" on their menu. They would have a Palak Paneer or a Malai Kofta or a Murgh Makhani - all of which we lump into "curry" - but no "curry" - This is patently wrong. Curry is a South Indian word referring to vegetables originally (Malakkarry means vegetables). Come to Kerala - you have Moru Curry (Butter Milk Curry) , E…

Also, in several north Indian languages “tarkari” refers to a vegetable curry.

https://www.google.com/search?q=tarkari

Rash Behari Bose was Bengali, and the Bengali word for curry is “tarkari”.

The “kari” is originally a Dravidian word. More on this here: https://mobile.twitter.com/avtansa/status/132281823254637363...

Re: The roots of Japan's Indian curry

#168

Post by plaguehammer »

dagmx wrote: post #18
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #3

Interesting! I take issue with the common claim that 'curry' isn't a thing in a 'real' Indian restaurant. I did a quick survey online and could not find a single solitary Indian restaurant menu without curry on it. From the fanciest to the common takeout joint. There are even chains like 'Curry House'. Let's tone down the virtue signaling in food reviews. It's silly. There are 150 languages in India; there are as man…

The point is that “curry” is a British generalization. Indian restaurants were historically called curry houses as a pejorative. India has many dishes that one might consider a curry, but we have no dish called curry. The only use of the word curry in restaurants is to appeal to British nationals (and anyone they spread their culture to). It’s an artifact of colonialism. I also don’t understand why you think it’s vir…

“Curry” isn’t a British generalization.

“tarkari” literally means a cooked vegetable dish in several north and eastern Indian languages.

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