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Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

france24.com

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Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#301

Post by bluescrn »

snakeboy wrote: post #297
bluescrn wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'E-scooters have safety risks, let's encourage people back into 2-ton fossil-fuel-burning cars instead!' If we want a future of EVs, we need to figure out how to include personal light EVs, not just very expensive full-size-car replacements for the wealthy.

In Paris and Berlin the alternatives are probably bikes, metro, or walking...

The 'Bicycles are fine but e-scooters are awful' argument comes up a lot, but doesn't make much sense. E-bikes are often ignored or just effectively invisible.

(I'll agree that rental scooter services have unique problems, but we shouldn't allow personally-owned scooters to be banned along with them)

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#302

Post by newaccount74 »

pif wrote: post #241
rhaway84773 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real problem with scooters is cuties unwilling to provide them with proper infrastructure. Bike lanes in most cities (out of the better European cycling cities), tend to be narrow and about 1/4 - 1/3 the size of a car lane. If a city were to dedicate a single car lane sized lane for “micromobility” and responded quickly to damage to this lane (which wouldn’t be as frequent for the obvious reason that damage is pr…

> If a city were to dedicate a single car lane sized lane for “micromobility” Most cities do not have a car lane sized lane to spare.

In my city it would be trivial in most roads, you would just have to remove parking on one side. Unfortunately the needs of 10 car owners living in the street are more important than the needs of everyone else...

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#303

Post by another_story »

seb1204 wrote: post #289
HPsquared wrote: post #245

It's a shame they are being banned in many places, because they are such a great idea. It's the equivalent to a taxi, but a small fraction of the price. It's such a great utility to be able to pick one up and go directly to your destination. All the advantages of having a bike, but without most of the downsides. People just needed to be somewhat polite and disciplined - too many ride fast on sidewalks, leave them in…

People are the reason we can't have nice things. Or maybe is is the free floating idea. I remember in Brisbane and Helsinki there were fixed stations to borrow and return bikes to/from. But it seems this tiny limitation of convenience (can't drop it wherever) breaks the concept.

Free floating is a mess. Living in China the bikes were everywhere. Masses piled outside every metro stop. In Taiwan/Taipei the system has bike docks at every metro and many other places as well. There's an app that tells you how many bikes are at each location and how many spots are left to park in. Getting a bike uses the same card as the bus, metro and train. Really easy and convenient and more orderly.

Not sure how well it would work in some places due to vandalism and such.

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#304

Post by wink »

elric wrote: post #287

I wonder if there have been any social studies done regarding the apparent sense of entitlement that comes with operating any kind of vehicle. E-scooters are an absolute menace nearly everywhere I've seen them being used, with their operators weaving between pedestrians and cars alike, and littering the kerb when unused. But the same is often true for bicycles, especially the fast electric kind, and it's certainly tr…

I think you're missing the fact that car infrastructure with curbside parking has evolved over decades, and cities have not managed to even provide ample parking space for standard bikes, as they have been in use for decades as well. Now these scooters just came into existence and over the course of 5-8 years have managed to clutter everything. They're not individuals' property (who would pick them up later) but they're owned and operated by a for-profit company and just being dropped anywhere by people. That's what makes it so very different.

Not that I have a good solution for this, but we have some bikes by the local public transport org, and they have dedicated "parking stations" - if there were more of those (and the bikes wouldn't be more expensive than other rental bikes), or if they'd just nab a few car parking spaces for it.. then it would be nicer. Yes, it is very convenient to leave your scooter next to your door, but I don't think it would be outrageous to walk the last 200m.

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#305

Post by dijit »

elric wrote: post #287

I wonder if there have been any social studies done regarding the apparent sense of entitlement that comes with operating any kind of vehicle. E-scooters are an absolute menace nearly everywhere I've seen them being used, with their operators weaving between pedestrians and cars alike, and littering the kerb when unused. But the same is often true for bicycles, especially the fast electric kind, and it's certainly tr…

It's also a problem of shared spaces.

Pedestrians and Bikes are a poor mix.

Bikes and Cars are a poor mix.

but scooters and bikes seem to mix quite well.

Malmo, Sweden; where I live, has excellent cycling infrastructure and the scooter "problem" is really miniscule. There are still issues, people parking in stupid ways or taking scooters into pedestrian areas, but overall there are significantly more dangerous drivers who hit the accelerator as hard as they can to reach the next red-light so that they can make the most noise possible.

I have also noticed that there are a contingent of people who despise anyone having anything nice, and will throw the scooters into the canals, spray their QR codes, intentionally destroy the stands (which means they can't be parked reasonably) and, worse in my opinion, moving the scooters away from where they are safely parked and placing them across the sidewalk, which makes the previous rider look like an arse.

The scooter companies try to combat this, but their combating sometimes has the inverse affect[0]. One thing has always been true though: you have to take a photo when you park so that your parking can be validated.

[0]: https://blog.dijit.sh/enforcement-can-have-the-inverse-effec...

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#306

Post by bluecalm »

pif wrote: post #241
rhaway84773 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real problem with scooters is cuties unwilling to provide them with proper infrastructure. Bike lanes in most cities (out of the better European cycling cities), tend to be narrow and about 1/4 - 1/3 the size of a car lane. If a city were to dedicate a single car lane sized lane for “micromobility” and responded quickly to damage to this lane (which wouldn’t be as frequent for the obvious reason that damage is pr…

> If a city were to dedicate a single car lane sized lane for “micromobility” Most cities do not have a car lane sized lane to spare.

Then ban or severely limit cars there. You can turn a 2-way street into one way one and turn the other lane into bike/e-mobility one. If not that make it 30km/h zone, allow bikes and allow other mobility devices to take the middle of the lane. Banning cars from some streets is great solution as well.

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#307

Post by srott2 »

snakeboy wrote: post #297
bluescrn wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'E-scooters have safety risks, let's encourage people back into 2-ton fossil-fuel-burning cars instead!' If we want a future of EVs, we need to figure out how to include personal light EVs, not just very expensive full-size-car replacements for the wealthy.

In Paris and Berlin the alternatives are probably bikes, metro, or walking...

So sad that metro workers go on strike so frequently.

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#308

Post by john_the_writer »

greggsy wrote: post #281
seren wrote: post #246

Just a precision, (private) e-scooters are still allowed. The vote was on renewing or not the contracts of free floating solutions like Tier, Lime, etc

Anecdata, but the vast majority of people I see using using escooters in Australian cities are kids and drunk people. It’s not hard to see either: they’re bright orange or purple, and are usually seen on a Saturday or Sunday morning dumped thoughtlessly in disabled ramps, in a gutter, or some other place that a drunk might find convenient.

Private ownership would clear this up. (not legal in NSW).

If you paid 600$ for one I don't expect you'd leave it in a gutter.

I'm almost 50 and I'd love to legally write an electric skateboard. I'd use it in most places. Now I just take the car, because it's the only way I can travel at speed with my dog.

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#309

Post by john_the_writer »

walthamstow wrote: post #290
seren wrote: post #246

Just a precision, (private) e-scooters are still allowed. The vote was on renewing or not the contracts of free floating solutions like Tier, Lime, etc

Funnily enough we have the exact opposite in the UK. Private scooters banned, rental scooters laying all over the pavement. I lean towards private scooters as more preferable because they don't clutter the public space. However, because they aren't regulated, some people have extremely fast models. Not uncommon to see someone doing 30mph+.

Yep. Same in most of Australia.

I wish privates were legal and rentals were gone.

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#310

Post by Epa095 »

seb1204 wrote: post #289
HPsquared wrote: post #245

It's a shame they are being banned in many places, because they are such a great idea. It's the equivalent to a taxi, but a small fraction of the price. It's such a great utility to be able to pick one up and go directly to your destination. All the advantages of having a bike, but without most of the downsides. People just needed to be somewhat polite and disciplined - too many ride fast on sidewalks, leave them in…

People are the reason we can't have nice things. Or maybe is is the free floating idea. I remember in Brisbane and Helsinki there were fixed stations to borrow and return bikes to/from. But it seems this tiny limitation of convenience (can't drop it wherever) breaks the concept.

Some places have fixed stations downtown, and free floating outside the city core. I find that compromise works pretty well, you get to drive all the way home and park outside your house where there is room, but you don't have thousands of them all over the place downtown.
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