Why hasn't someone just changed the GPL license already: "If you train an AI on this code, you must release the source code and generated neural net of that AI as open source" or something to that effect. It won't stop it, but it will slow it down, and it seems like the right T&Cs to put on training against GPL code because it gives an advantage to open source AIs, however minor.
Implying the "AI" community respects intellectual property rights.
Saying Goodbye to GitHub
131–140 of 450 posts
Re: Saying Goodbye to GitHub
#132Earlier quoted context omitted.
> If code with a license, say GPL, goes out somewhere else, by someone else If the code is GPL licensed, you can't relicense it under a non-FOSS license like you're talking about > Don't they then have to remove that code? Yes, if code gets uploaded whose license is incompatible with Microsoft's terms, they probably do have to remove it. > Now imagine this: I write some code, license it, but don't publish it yet. It'…
Not re-license. I upload with the same license I got it with, as per the license. So then Github is breaking the law a significant portion of the time then at the very least?
Facebook wouldn't be able to allow users to upload photos.
Hacker news wouldn't allow me to post this comment (someone else could own the copyright, right?)
Re: Saying Goodbye to GitHub
#133> It's a stochastic parrot Stopped reading right there. The author clearly has no clue of how neural networks work or what makes them tick.
Do you have any resources you'd recommend to form a better understanding of how NNs tick? I'd like to get a better intuitive grasp on whats going on - I've mostly just been responding to that with "Well, if stochastic parrotism can do all this..."
Obviously there's much more out there, those three things are a pretty good read.
[1]: https://writings.stephenwolfram.com/2023/02/what-is-chatgpt-...
Re: Saying Goodbye to GitHub
#134Why don't the alternative projects just copy the good old github interface instead of starting from a bad scratch, scaring the transitioning devs off?
Re: Saying Goodbye to GitHub
#135I'm gonna get hated on for this, but I don't think "give back" is an open source concept. I'm not aware of any Open Source license,or Free license for that matter,that has a give-back clause. Source code is available to -users- ,not prior-authors. Some Open Source licenses can be used in proprietary code, (MIT, BSD etc) with little more than simple attribution. Those developers chose that license for a reason, and I'…
Yeah on the one hand, isn't opening your source all about not really minding what happens to it after that? It's intended to be copied and used. On the other hand something about the term "laundering" kind of resonated for me. It's kind of like automated plagiarism where you spread your copying out over millions of people. But plagiarism only has meaning as an offense when the thing being copied isn't intended to be…
No! That's a gross misrepresentation of what open sourcing is. It's the offer of a deal. You publish the source code and in return for looking at it and using it for sth, I have obligations. Like attribution and licensing requirements regarding derived works.
Re: Saying Goodbye to GitHub
#136I'm gonna get hated on for this, but I don't think "give back" is an open source concept. I'm not aware of any Open Source license,or Free license for that matter,that has a give-back clause. Source code is available to -users- ,not prior-authors. Some Open Source licenses can be used in proprietary code, (MIT, BSD etc) with little more than simple attribution. Those developers chose that license for a reason, and I'…
One possible problem is if Copilot gets good enough that you can rather easily sidestep GPL (or any other license) by having Copilot implement functionality X for you instead of using a license-bound library providing X. Not only may this be questionable regarding the license, but it would also be tend to reduce contributions to the library which otherwise would have been used.
If it's not a hard derivation, then it's difficult to prove or even notice.
Re: Saying Goodbye to GitHub
#137Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not re-license. I upload with the same license I got it with, as per the license. So then Github is breaking the law a significant portion of the time then at the very least?
Microsoft/Github makes a reasonable attempt to remove infringing code. If you obtain a copy of proprietary source code owned by Apple on the dark net, and upload to github, they'll definitely remove that. If companies were responsible for user-uploaded content that the company takes reasonable steps to remove, no one would be able to accept user-uploaded content in the first place. Facebook wouldn't be able to allow…
Re: Saying Goodbye to GitHub
#138Earlier quoted context omitted.
The ToS is necessary for GitHub to provide their services, the wording is pretty carefully constructed so that GitHub are safe to change their service and develop new things. Loosely speaking "by uploading code you grant GitHub permission to blah blah with that code" I'm not sure how well it will go down in court fighting this... since we agreed to it. But the more interesting question will be is the result a complet…
I just want to make sure you appreciate that if you really believe this argument then GitHub can only be used by the people who actually directly own the copyright on projects; and if you, for example, want to clone and edit my software (the vast majority of which I explicitly never uploaded to GitHub) then you wouldn't be allowed to (which doesn't seem like either the intention or the way it is commonly used)... and…
The relevant section is this:
GitHub Terms of Service: Section D, Sub-Section 3 - https://docs.github.com/en/site-policy/github-terms/github-t...
The phrase relevant to your point is "If you're posting anything you did not create yourself or do not own the rights to, you agree that you are responsible for any Content you post; that you will only submit Content that you have the right to post; and that you will fully comply with any third party licenses relating to Content you post."
It's fair to interpret that as GitHub are not going to be copyright police. The bit at the end where I suggest a "code Id" is more of a thought experiment as to how they could continue to offer the service while complying with a potential adverse ruling that doesn't ascribe blame on them or the service since theres another section of the ToS that I, with my "knows slightly more about law than average but absolutely not a lawyer" hat firmly on, feel will be how GitHub's legal team at least try to make short work of the lawsuit, their success with this tactic is a matter for the Courts, and I'd love better legal scholars to weigh in.
GitHub Terms of Service: Section D, Sub-Section 4 - https://docs.github.com/en/site-policy/github-terms/github-t...
Which reads thus:
"We need the legal right to do things like host Your Content, publish it, and share it. You grant us and our legal successors the right to store, archive, parse, and display Your Content, and make incidental copies, as necessary to provide the Service, including improving the Service over time. This license includes the right to do things like copy it to our database and make backups; show it to you and other users; parse it into a search index or otherwise analyze it on our servers; share it with other users; and perform it, in case Your Content is something like music or video.
This license does not grant GitHub the right to sell Your Content. It also does not grant GitHub the right to otherwise distribute or use Your Content outside of our provision of the Service, except that as part of the right to archive Your Content, GitHub may permit our partners to store and archive Your Content in public repositories in connection with the GitHub Arctic Code Vault and GitHub Archive Program."
For me the key quote being "including improving the Service over time. This license includes the right to do things like copy it to our database and make backups; show it to you and other users; parse it into a search index or otherwise analyze it on our servers; share it with other users;". Now theres some legal arguing to be done about if charging for the AI constitutes an infringement on the second paragraph which opens with "This license does not grant GitHub the right to sell Your Content. It also does not grant GitHub the right to otherwise distribute or use Your Content outside of our provision of the Service" but thats a very different argument to what I see a lot of people making. People are arguing (generally speaking) from the standpoint of "its not right, this violates my rights as the author having selected this license for my code/commits and published it under that licensed for others to share" ... not "i didn't agree to GitHub selling my content and this constitutes violation of GitHub Terms of Service: Section D, Sub-Section 4 where they told me that they would not sell my content".
But broadly speaking, unless the argument shifts to GitHub Terms of Service: Section D, Sub-Section 4 and classifying this as an unapproved sale of the users content, then I don't see how GitHub are not well within their rights to have trained the AI model and offered it as a service. We by agreeing to the ToS agreed to GitHub Terms of Service: Section D, Sub-Section 3 where we promise to only post code we have the rights to post and that we the user will comply with the legal complexities of third party licenses and basically are responsible for not posting stuff to GitHub for which we cant grant GitHub the requested legal rights, which when combined together means that we gave them permission to use our code and commits, regardless of any license files we may have put in the repos, to train the AI model. We can definitely argue derivation and what justifies a sale, and I'd be inclined to say they may actually have breached that term, but no one I've read is talking about that, its all about copyright infringement for AI generated code and moral rights with respect to using the code to train the model, not a clear cut contractual breach of the Terms of Service that GitHub may or may not have perpetrated on us as the other party agreeing to be bound by the contract.
Re: Saying Goodbye to GitHub
#139Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not re-license. I upload with the same license I got it with, as per the license. So then Github is breaking the law a significant portion of the time then at the very least?
Microsoft/Github makes a reasonable attempt to remove infringing code. If you obtain a copy of proprietary source code owned by Apple on the dark net, and upload to github, they'll definitely remove that. If companies were responsible for user-uploaded content that the company takes reasonable steps to remove, no one would be able to accept user-uploaded content in the first place. Facebook wouldn't be able to allow…