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Midjourney CEO Silencing Satire About Xi Jinping

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Re: Midjourney CEO Silencing Satire About Xi Jinping

#91

Post by WiSaGaN »

andrewstuart wrote: post #47

>> “the ability for people in China to use this tech is more important than your ability to generate satire.” How about "the ability for people to be free and have free systems and society is more important than the money we hope to get from doing business in China". But here we are in Silicon Valley where business and money rise above all else including national sovereignty.

I mean, doesn't the concept of a free society apply to private corporations as well? The government is not restricting you; the private company is exercising its right to run its business according to its own free will. The principle of a free society suggests that "if you don't like the company's policy, find another one or create your own." Is that wrong?

Re: Midjourney CEO Silencing Satire About Xi Jinping

#92

Post by cryptoz »

mindcandy wrote: post #74

Everyone is crying Corporate Greed in here. And, I can understand why. But, here’s another perspective based on listening to David Holz answer all kinds of questions from random users for four hours a week for over a year during Midjourney’s “Office Hours”. AFAICT, Midjourney has no shareholders and David Holz is the farthest thing from a slick CEO. He’s a big dreamer hippie dork. He made all the money he cares to ha…

Not so simple. No ridiculing Xi makes the platform less comfortable for people in other countries like the US. We expect freedom to ridicule and if that’s not available on a platform because the owner prefers to cater to a specific dictator, then we may be less likely to use it. I might still use it , I might not.

But bowing to a dictator who says you can’t say Winnie the Pooh anymore seems like a one-sided, pro-dictator decision.

It has nothing to do with the CEO wanting to make people in China comfortable - surely he wants people in the US to feel comfortable too if that was the case?

I suppose you can’t have both. So siding with the dictator was the choice made? Bold move cotton.

Re: Midjourney CEO Silencing Satire About Xi Jinping

#93

Post by maest »

mindcandy wrote: post #74

Everyone is crying Corporate Greed in here. And, I can understand why. But, here’s another perspective based on listening to David Holz answer all kinds of questions from random users for four hours a week for over a year during Midjourney’s “Office Hours”. AFAICT, Midjourney has no shareholders and David Holz is the farthest thing from a slick CEO. He’s a big dreamer hippie dork. He made all the money he cares to ha…

> Lots of people complain that they don’t allow porn. But, as a result, a millions of people who are not just horny teenage boys enjoy hanging out on the server sharing and discussing art that is not just pics of sexy women all day every day.

I don't think that follows - boobs being allowed doesn't stop people from creating SFW works as well.

Re: Midjourney CEO Silencing Satire About Xi Jinping

#94

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

Animats wrote: post #42

What happens if you ask Midjourney for a picture of Mohammad?

I don’t think that’s a comparable dynamic. Censoring your users to avoid being murdered is much more sympathetic than censoring your users to protect your Chinese market access.

Re: Midjourney CEO Silencing Satire About Xi Jinping

#95

Post by jpgvm »

FormerBandmate wrote: post #82
mindcandy wrote: post #74

Everyone is crying Corporate Greed in here. And, I can understand why. But, here’s another perspective based on listening to David Holz answer all kinds of questions from random users for four hours a week for over a year during Midjourney’s “Office Hours”. AFAICT, Midjourney has no shareholders and David Holz is the farthest thing from a slick CEO. He’s a big dreamer hippie dork. He made all the money he cares to ha…

> David seems to think that since ridiculing politicians in China is taboo, having people ridicule Xi on MJ would make it unwelcoming to people in China. It's taboo because a dictator forbids it. The people have nothing to do with it

Similar would also be illegal in Thailand under Lèse-majesté. Political satire of the old King in particular would be unwelcoming to many Thais which held him in an esteem above such things.

Just because it's illegal doesn't mean it wouldn't also be culturally unacceptable and alienating.

Re: Midjourney CEO Silencing Satire About Xi Jinping

#96

Post by basisword »

snehk wrote: post #46
Animats wrote: post #42

What happens if you ask Midjourney for a picture of Mohammad?

I tried it on DallE and it says "It looks like this request may not follow our content policy."

Remarkable especially given the hugely viral “Pope” AI images of the last few weeks.

Re: Midjourney CEO Silencing Satire About Xi Jinping

#97

Post by anonymous_sorry »

chrisdbanks wrote: post #27
fsloth wrote: post #12

> It turns out authoritarian power and capital markets can be scary effective. I don't think authoritarian systems are as dynamic and innovative as democratic ones, but a gigantic authoritarian regime can utilize external democracies for innovation and then leverage their market power to silence criticism both home and abroad. Creative tools that impede free speech are harbingers of Orwellian future. "Sorry, you are…

These new models could be the downfall of authoritarian regimes. These regimes rely on suppressing access to information but soon we'll have an LLM that can answer any questions about the world and fit on a USB stick that can be passed from person to person. No more great firewall of China.

Quite apart from arguments about the effectiveness of authoritarian regimes to prevent this, we would first need an LLM that can be trusted not to make stuff up.

Re: Midjourney CEO Silencing Satire About Xi Jinping

#99

Post by fsloth »

mindcandy wrote: post #74

Everyone is crying Corporate Greed in here. And, I can understand why. But, here’s another perspective based on listening to David Holz answer all kinds of questions from random users for four hours a week for over a year during Midjourney’s “Office Hours”. AFAICT, Midjourney has no shareholders and David Holz is the farthest thing from a slick CEO. He’s a big dreamer hippie dork. He made all the money he cares to ha…

Thanks for adding more context, but I think your framing of the motivation makes the situation far worse.

"...That’s all there is to it."

Regardless of motivation, bowing to authoritarian control is still bowing to authoritarian control.

I would claim it's worse to censor ridiculing political figures out of politeness than out of profit seeking.

Self censorship is one of the main methods by which authoritarian ideologies are maintained and spread. It's not secret police knocking on peoples doors. It's people thinking in their head "I want to remain polite...".

I respect the intent to create forums for global collaboration. But this really is one of the areas where this is helping to spread the authoritarian ideology.

Is the genocide in Xinjiang one of the impolite topics?

What if China invades Taiwan, and the Taiwan war becomes one of the "impolite" topics for Chinese?

Re: Midjourney CEO Silencing Satire About Xi Jinping

#100

Post by ramblerman »

atleastoptimal wrote: post #61

I think this is a time for people to realize that political satire has absolutely no influence whatsoever on the political regimes it aims to satirize. The amount of satire levied against Donald Trump, measured in tweets, art, comedy routines, scathing op-eds and every thought or public expression of ill will surpasses that of every other leader in human history by a large margin. And all in all it had little to no e…

> You can’t topple a regime by laughing at it.

The purpose of the satire is not to affect politics. It is a healthy expression of a free society.

a regime that doesn’t tolerate laughing at it is almost always authoritarian and kept in place undemocratically.

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