Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters • Hacker News Board

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#181

Post by apichat » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 6:58 AM UTC

TylerE wrote: post #176

apichat wrote: post #171

With 7.45% turnout, it's more of an elderly's bad joke. Elderly and wealthy people who have been brainwashed by television and want to continue using their murderous and polluting cars and taxis. Other people are more concerns by ecological problems and the rise in the pension age.

Rental escooters are a MENACE - and i'm not old either - just been nearly mown down by one several times.

In Paris each years 90 persons are not "nearly mown down" by rental escooters but killed by cars, taxis and motorcycle. Plus thousands of people killed by toxic gases from cars, taxis and motorbikes.

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#182

Post by rekoil » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 7:01 AM UTC

FeistySkink wrote: post #3

I hope this becomes EU-wide. Every season it seems like there's a new generation that discovers and abuses them to no end, endangering everybody around.

I like that they exist, but I think there are way too many companies competing.

I would rather see the EU:

    1. require that they cooperate on one app to use to rent them, and require that all scooters in any EU city work with that app
    2. require the use of helmets
    3. require designated parking areas (this could maybe be a city by city choice I guess)

I fully expect that if such rules were enforced, many of the companies would likely just choose to move their operation elsewhere. I'm fine with this, dumping scooters on the streets because there are no laws saying they can't is a vile approach to business.

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#183

Post by Kuinox » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 7:04 AM UTC

jalada wrote: post #164

When I was in Paris in 2019 I tried to use their e-scooters and it was nearly impossible because angry locals had sharpie-d over every barcode so you couldn’t scan them. I’m surprised the companies haven’t left already.

The situation has well changed since 2019.

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#184

Post by Gigachad » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 7:04 AM UTC

Freak_NL wrote: post #135

Gigachad wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main advantage imo is you can bring them on trains and in elevators much easier than bikes. And for the rental ones, you don't have to worry about bringing anything or having to secure it on the other end.

> The main advantage imo is you can bring them on trains and in elevators much easier than bikes. Like a folding bike.

The fact is, I see countless people using electric scooters every day, I can’t think of a single instance seeing a folding bike in person, despite them existing for a whole lot longer.

Clearly scooters have won.

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#185

Post by franky47 » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 7:04 AM UTC

One major annoyance with these e-scooters is their "take it from anywhere, leave it anywhere" rental model.

Sure, it's practical for the user, but it litters the pavement for everyone else with scooters badly parked, sometimes even lying on their side on the floor, requiring teams of maintenance people to patrol the streets (with petrol trucks) and set them back up in an orderly fashion and grouped at strategic locations.

Same thing goes for (e-)bike rentals.

Paris also has a non-private bike rental service (Velib'), which uses fixed stations. You can still park the bike temporarily anywhere (eg: pop into a shop), but you have to return it to a station.

The market supremacists might pile on in the replies, but having a well-subsidised, self-service public transport system with fixed stations is much neater in a tight city than a free-for-all model.

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#186

Post by easytiger » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 7:04 AM UTC

renewiltord wrote: post #166

easytiger wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now ban them and their bike scheme counterparts in London. An absolute blight on the city. Their USP is they can be left anywhere. https://i.imgur.com/s59Bvf3.png

Those Lime bikes are terrific. Great for access to places that don't have Santander bikes.

Great for the fraction of a percent of Londoners who use them, terrible for every one else

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#187

Post by renewiltord » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 7:06 AM UTC

easytiger wrote: post #186

renewiltord wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those Lime bikes are terrific. Great for access to places that don't have Santander bikes.

Great for the fraction of a percent of Londoners who use them, terrible for every one else

I just walk past them when I'm not using them. Very easy. Hardly a problem.

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#188

Post by detrites » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 7:08 AM UTC

Lived in a small city which had mixed use of cars, bikes and shoes for many years. Never saw an accident of any kind. Generally mature and sedate drivers and bikers, but a culture that widely enjoyed adventure sports etc.

E-scooters introduced. In one year I saw three accidents where someone was hurt to the point they require attention, and multiple close misses - one of which would have been extremely serious but for a split-second stroke of luck.

All involving e-scooters.

My observation is the combination of silent operation, effortless acceleration, and the impulsive enabling of randomly deciding you need to go faster right now both at rental and on the scooter, is a hot mess.

I'd frequently have people whizz past me at high speed, inches away, and have no idea they were coming. Had I happened to move slightly, say to avoid an obstacle or bend around to reach for my bag, we'd both have been screwed.

While this can happen with a bike, it's much less often - as the effort and room required to pedal doesn't lend well to instantaneous impulse, nor the "sneak through a tight gap" temptation, it's all simply louder and slower.

I'm sure different demographics and cultures experience scooters differently, and maybe some safely, but where I was, and I can presume in Paris (given how they drive...) it was not a good mix, at all.

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#189

Post by helsinkiandrew » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 7:15 AM UTC

apichat wrote: post #171

With 7.45% turnout, it's more of an elderly's bad joke. Elderly and wealthy people who have been brainwashed by television and want to continue using their murderous and polluting cars and taxis. Other people are more concerns by ecological problems and the rise in the pension age.

> With 7.45% turnout, it's more of an elderly's bad joke. Elderly and wealthy people who have been brainwashed by television and want to continue using their murderous and polluting cars and taxis.

I don't know about Paris, but the from other cities I've seen it's probably the general poor behaviour of rental scooter hirers that's the problem. Ignoring any dangerous riding the scooters are just so poorly parked - cluttering sidewalks, falling into roads etc. I'm an occasional e-scooter hirer when a tourist and sometimes after a night out in my home town, but I'm 50/50 if they should be banned in my city.

Rental companies should take more of an effort to penalise users that park and drive poorly if they want to continue operating.

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#190

Post by HWR_14 » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 7:16 AM UTC

entropyneur wrote: post #156

HWR_14 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one is contending that using scooters is bad for the user. They are saying a bunch of drunk users are using them recklessly for non-users and are getting in people's way by parking them all over the sidewalks and streets. An aggressive ticketing campaign isn't very helpful in a city with a lot of tourists, because they'll just go home without having paid the ticket. Is Interpol going to seek out 30 euros?

Hmm, I'm pretty sure fining within EU is a solved problem and for everyone else we have border control.

Fining within the EU is not a solved problem. In 2019, millions of international fines went uncollected because the infrastructure still was buggy. So, legally it is a solved problem, but practical enforcement is not (yet).

Border control does not (currently) detect fines and prevent people from leaving to non-EU locations.