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The day Windows died

thomasbandt.com

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Re: The day Windows died

#441

Post by pjmlp »

inciampati wrote: post #389
FridayoLeary wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue with Linux for me is how crude and unpolished the desktop environment is compared to windows and Mac. For the average user the desktop is everything and Linux lag way behind on that. Why are there basically only 2 choices on Linux and both have the same boring font?

What elements of polish are you missing? Have you used gnome shell in the last five years? My desktop experience on Linux is so clean. Everything is a "windows" key press away. I hit they then enter the first characters of the program name. It's all composited and GPU accelerated too, and interaction is instantaneous. Almost anything that needs additional polish is on the web and looks the same on every computer... F…

Have you ever tried to develop GUI applications for GNOME versus macOS/Windows tooling?

Re: The day Windows died

#442

Post by throw_m239339 »

joeman1000 wrote: post #122
qbasic_forever wrote: post #65

Setup your 10 year old with bleeding edge Arch Linux, add a script to automatically update nightly (or even hourly lol), and give them a secondary device like a tablet loaded up with access to arch wiki, every man page, etc. but nothing else. They will be an absolute Linux wizard in months and maybe a core contributor soon after.

Sounds like hell. They will quickly be turned away from Linux and want something simpler. Yak-shaving in lieu of work sounds cool, but it sucks when you really need to do stuff other than dick around in the terminal.

> Sounds like hell. They will quickly be turned away from Linux and want something simpler. Yak-shaving in lieu of work sounds cool, but it sucks when you really need to do stuff other than dick around in the terminal.

Kids did fine with Amiga or Atari ST back in the days. Linux isn't a problem at all, they'll get used to it. And Valve/Steam proton platform allows them to run plenty of games.

Re: The day Windows died

#443

Post by another_story »

piyush_soni wrote: post #380
safety1st wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This post is basically about the author's nostalgia for his early days of computing with Windows 95 and how he wanted his son to have the same experience. This post is screaming out for Linux. Linux is the solution to his dilemma. If he reformats that drive and puts say Kubuntu on it - the kid's first PC experience is going to be a vaguely retro 90's style shell with a start menu, the start menu is going to have a Ga…

> And of course it's Linux, so there's infinite opportunity to get under the hood and tinker. - Or keep trying to fix the environment + hardware compatibility issues and not do the actual work/study. Or keep editing some random xorg.conf file because his monitor's display suddenly became weird. Or try to fix some other random files since the sound driver doesn't work. He's 10. I'm 40 and still horrified to deal with…

People always say this, but in the last half decade I've put Linux (ubuntu varieties) on multiple desktops with near 0 additional effort needed. At most I needed to install a proprietary Nvidia driver which was easily done without using terminal. I've spent far more time trying to decrapify Windows than getting Linux to work.

Now laptops are a different matter.

Re: The day Windows died

#444

Post by gyranthology »

alentred wrote: post #425

Same experience just recently: installing Windows for both of my kids. I got insanely frustrated with it. Forget the Family Safety. I honestly don't see it working at all. I created Microsoft accounts for my kids and set their ages. This changes nothing I can see. Search menu shows VERY explicit news. It asks my kid to sign in to her Microsoft account every now and then, even though she's signed in since it was insta…

That's terrifying. The child protection stuff sounds like a total mess, but it bleeds way beyond that.

After leaving Windows behind in 2007 (Mac or Linux machines only), I switched back to Windows to do game development. I can't believe how much of a piece of crap these Windows machines are. All the apps that are preinstalled is one issue. Another is the stupid stuff they add to the search bar to make it look more like the Google landing page. The news, the ads, the weather, the notifications...and don't get me started on how you can't disable the use of the Edge browser when clicking on web search results from the search bar. It constantly feels like I am slogging through crap that they forced into onto the machines. It sucks because these are not productivity and work machines. They are built to get you to consume while pretending to allow you to work. I gave it a few years time and I'm still stuck with the same response. Working on a Mac or Linux is insanely more productive and enjoyable that dealing with Windows.

Re: The day Windows died

#445

Post by phendrenad2 »

blkhawk wrote: post #424
spaceman_2020 wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is very much true. The first time I had mouse scrollwheel issues on Linux, I was just casually told to create a bash file to change config settings. Not user friendly at all.

why is that user-unfriendly? Didn't it work? Did you miss the ads and the tracking you cannot turn off, updates that ninja-popup and log your PC for half an hour if you not careful for half a second while writing something or the simplicity of selecting the type of user you want to setup by pulling the network cable or disabling your wifi?

This is just whataboutism. Also, some of us dare to dream of an OS that doesn't track you and also... works. Don't limit your imagination to the status quo.

Re: The day Windows died

#446

Post by n3storm »

safety1st wrote: post #353
apatheticonion wrote: post #332

It's really sad that there is no where for us to go in the desktop OS space right now. I, weirdly, daily drive all 3 OSes. MacOS; Work issued laptop and longish-time user (about 6 years with it). Windows; Desktop PC mostly for games. I've been using Windows since I could walk. Fedora; Desktop PC, dual booted which I use for most everything else. I cannot believe how much of a dumpster fire Windows has become. From th…

This post is basically about the author's nostalgia for his early days of computing with Windows 95 and how he wanted his son to have the same experience. This post is screaming out for Linux. Linux is the solution to his dilemma. If he reformats that drive and puts say Kubuntu on it - the kid's first PC experience is going to be a vaguely retro 90's style shell with a start menu, the start menu is going to have a Ga…

My kid is learning lots of skills with XFCE, launchers, folders, usb maintenance to bring things to school, he apt update and flatpak install things. At school they use windows and he has no trouble at all.

Re: The day Windows died

#447

Post by blkhawk »

bboygravity wrote: post #390
piyush_soni wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And of course it's Linux, so there's infinite opportunity to get under the hood and tinker. - Or keep trying to fix the environment + hardware compatibility issues and not do the actual work/study. Or keep editing some random xorg.conf file because his monitor's display suddenly became weird. Or try to fix some other random files since the sound driver doesn't work. He's 10. I'm 40 and still horrified to deal with…

This is 100 percent why I (and many others no doubt) don't want to touch Linux. Even though it feels better/best. When it fully works on my hardware. Which it never ever does.

Good, I think that is somewhat of a feature - It serves as a bit of a moat to people who would hurt themself in their confusion.

This might sound a bit harsh but Microsoft actively cultivated a type of user I would call "long time novice computer user" and combine that with the poor choices that were made regarding security design and you get results like the ninja updates Windows has these days.

As for hardware compatibility Windows has the big advantage that everything is tested on it. One can definitively minimize the risk of issues by just selecting appropriate hardware for linux.

Re: The day Windows died

#448

Post by flakeoil »

bboygravity wrote: post #390
piyush_soni wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And of course it's Linux, so there's infinite opportunity to get under the hood and tinker. - Or keep trying to fix the environment + hardware compatibility issues and not do the actual work/study. Or keep editing some random xorg.conf file because his monitor's display suddenly became weird. Or try to fix some other random files since the sound driver doesn't work. He's 10. I'm 40 and still horrified to deal with…

This is 100 percent why I (and many others no doubt) don't want to touch Linux. Even though it feels better/best. When it fully works on my hardware. Which it never ever does.

It might be worth using hardware that is more adapted and tested for use with Linux such as Framework, System76, Starlabs, Tuxedo etc. Typically these computers have better HW driver support than some others and also a HW company with an interest to have their laptops work with Linux backing it up a bit.

After all Mac OS only runs on a few dedicated Apple computers and that's partly why it is a smoother experience overall. If Linux only had to support a few Laptop models it would have been easier to get it all working.

Re: The day Windows died

#449

Post by maxhille »

charcircuit wrote: post #220
bee_rider wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I made the mistake it getting a Rift, it is gathering dust now that Facebook has gotten their creepy hands on it. I wonder if Linux is a fundamentally much better platform for VR than windows? The problems are mostly latency related, right? And the openness of the platform means that Valve can really tinker to their hearts’ content.

>now that Facebook has gotten their creepy hands on it No Oculus headsets shipped to consumers until after the acquisition by Facebook. The DK1 from the Kickstarter started shipping a few days after the acquisition. >I wonder if Linux is a fundamentally much better platform for VR than windows? The most popular OS for VR is the one running on the Quest headsets and uses Linux. For quickly evolving technology like VR…

> No Oculus headsets shipped to consumers until after the acquisition by Facebook. The DK1 from the Kickstarter started shipping a few days after the acquisition.

Pretty sure your timeline is wrong here. I remember the news of the sellout coming in while waiting for my DK2 shipment.

I knew I was gonna get a device which would instantly get obsolete by a move into an Apple style walled garden.

Re: The day Windows died

#450

Post by oblio »

another_story wrote: post #443
piyush_soni wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And of course it's Linux, so there's infinite opportunity to get under the hood and tinker. - Or keep trying to fix the environment + hardware compatibility issues and not do the actual work/study. Or keep editing some random xorg.conf file because his monitor's display suddenly became weird. Or try to fix some other random files since the sound driver doesn't work. He's 10. I'm 40 and still horrified to deal with…

People always say this, but in the last half decade I've put Linux (ubuntu varieties) on multiple desktops with near 0 additional effort needed. At most I needed to install a proprietary Nvidia driver which was easily done without using terminal. I've spent far more time trying to decrapify Windows than getting Linux to work. Now laptops are a different matter.

> Now laptops are a different matter.

And laptops are most client PCs sold these days, people barely buy desktops anymore:

https://www.canalys.com/newsroom/global-pc-market-Q4-2021

Linux is skating where the puck has been.

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