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Starlink internet is going from rural savior to unreliable luxury

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Re: Starlink internet is going from rural savior to unreliable luxury

#71

Post by jacquesm »

lazzlazzlazz wrote: post #7

So Starlink has been so effective and so popular that — utterly unsurprisingly — it is becoming more congested and they're raising rates. This is good news and not bad. It's a strong sign that the model fundamentally works and they will be able to fund continuous improvements to meet strong demand.

> It's a strong sign that the model fundamentally works

I think that's a bit early to tell. If the launch costs + satellite costs don't add up to a very nice profit before the satellite de-orbits then that was a loss. This can look like it is working well until the number of satellites de-orbiting and needing to be replaced becomes larger than your temporary profits after launching the first constellation.

This is why other comms satellite operators chose to play it safe and use geo stationary orbits rather than LEO, those satellites live many times longer and you need far fewer of them. Obviously they are limited in bandwidth and latency but they are ultra reliable.

Re: Starlink internet is going from rural savior to unreliable luxury

#72

Post by chrisco255 »

muglug wrote: post #20

I think it probably should be more expensive to live off the beaten path. The per-capita CO2 consumption of people who rely on cars for everything is far higher than for people who can walk places or take public transport, and those environmental costs aren't passed on effectively to consumers.

I think it would be fantastic if delusional urban people would grow their own food and supply their own cities with non rural distribution chains. Hey, it's local first after all. No potatoes from Idaho. No more avocados from Mexico, no coffee beans from South America to supply your morning latte habit.

Thanks to the inevitable drop in population upon enacting such a shortsighted policy, it would also fix any admittedly ephemeral concerns you might have about CO2.

Re: Starlink internet is going from rural savior to unreliable luxury

#74

Post by shaklee3 »

mlyle wrote: post #58
cozzyd wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do cheap launches help when spectral bandwidth over an area is going to be the true limitation? Starlink's problem is going to be that most profitable areas are better served by terrestrial LTE/5G, leaving only truly remote areas that are low density enough. But not many people live there...

> Do cheap launches help when spectral bandwidth over an area is going to be the true limitation? Spectral bandwidth doesn't matter so much with beamforming with reasonably narrow beams. At least not until you get to a lot of satellites overhead at once. Dishy probably obtains a beam ~3 degrees wide; there's a lot of 3x3 degree sectors in the sky. Similarly, the ground "cells" are 300 sq km; there's a lot of these in…

bandwidth matters a lot. it's why SpaceX pays so much on legal fees for fcc filings

Re: Starlink internet is going from rural savior to unreliable luxury

#75

Post by shaklee3 »

publicmenace wrote: post #61
shaklee3 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

no, it's not a strong sign of that. it's a strong sign that with VC money and government money you can offer unrealistic service at unrealistic prices. but when you need to start showing that you are profitable and launching satellites to maintain the current network is also expensive, both your service and prices start to get more in line with what everybody else already had. The honeymoon phase of starlink is over.…

Almost all of Starlink’s competitors are completely dependent on government money. The FCC spends billions a year cutting checks to rural ISPs to subsidize them. The FCC took Starlink’s subsidies away because the Biden admin hates Musk now. But I think Musk will still beat many of these clown companies anyway.

your history is a bit off. the fcc commissioner and fcc has generally loved SpaceX, and they were not appointed by Biden. what happened was SpaceX continually got worse in the fcc samknows testing, so much so that their original application for $900M was far from the service they actually offered. for that reason they paused the funding until SpaceX improved things to the point they promised. they still have not improved and have continued declining.

Re: Starlink internet is going from rural savior to unreliable luxury

#76

Post by theaussiestew »

shaklee3 wrote: post #48
MindSpunk wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So much this. I'm on Starlink in Sydney because Australia's NBN decided to stop their fibre rollout 600 meters from my house and decided that the only option they would provide me is old geostationary satellite. 4G reception is middling with pathetic data caps. I get 5G reception too but none of the providers will offer home broadband services, only mobile Wifi. On Starlink I get ~250mbps down at a price only margina…

this has been repeated countless times, but the only reason you are experiencing good service is because it's not at capacity. as soon as your area gets to capacity, just like it is all over the US, you too will face bad speeds and increasing prices. for some reason people thought starlink had some magical solution to capacity problems and that the high speeds would last forever. it's just another ISP.

It'll never get to capacity where he lives, because he lives in a semi-rural area that has a low population density.

Re: Starlink internet is going from rural savior to unreliable luxury

#77

Post by publicmenace »

shaklee3 wrote: post #75
publicmenace wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost all of Starlink’s competitors are completely dependent on government money. The FCC spends billions a year cutting checks to rural ISPs to subsidize them. The FCC took Starlink’s subsidies away because the Biden admin hates Musk now. But I think Musk will still beat many of these clown companies anyway.

your history is a bit off. the fcc commissioner and fcc has generally loved SpaceX, and they were not appointed by Biden. what happened was SpaceX continually got worse in the fcc samknows testing, so much so that their original application for $900M was far from the service they actually offered. for that reason they paused the funding until SpaceX improved things to the point they promised. they still have not impr…

They didn't have to meet any performance targets until 2024 at the earliest so that was a bogus justification. They were fairly close but were cutting performance a bit to reach more customers pending the launch of more satellites.

And just because Rosenworcel was appointed by Obama instead of Biden doesn’t mean she’s not a loyal part of the Biden administration.

Re: Starlink internet is going from rural savior to unreliable luxury

#78

Post by Auracle »

dougmwne wrote: post #6

We have a cottage where we are considering getting starlink at. This service still seems like a game changer to me. If 4g is also available, running a router with dual-wan sounds like a great option to mitigate connection dropouts. We will try that. If you’re really serious about living in the back of beyond and your income depends on your ability to be on zoom calls, then it’s a small price to pay.

The only time our Starlink drops is during the heaviest of upper midwest downpours, so I really wouldn't worry about a backup unless you absolutely need 100% instead of 99.999% uptime.

Re: Starlink internet is going from rural savior to unreliable luxury

#79

Post by pclmulqdq »

Fatnino wrote: post #26
ChatGTP wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What determines capacity isn't transparent. Also, yes it may get cheaper, but that’s not a given, if it doesn’t, what happens then?

Price comes down when meaningful competition enters the space (see what I did there?) OneWeb seems about ready to start offering service. Remains to be seen if the offering can compete with starlink but good chance it will apply downward pressure to prices. Then in the medium distant future there is Amazon's constellation that will have to compete with starlink v3 or v4 or whatever they're up to by then.

There's already plenty of competition going for the profitable market segments - I know of at least 4 LEO satellite ISPs that are currently operating aside from SpaceX. Residential ISP in space is not one of those by most good estimates of costs and prices. Even SpaceX themselves are saying this.

Re: Starlink internet is going from rural savior to unreliable luxury

#80

Post by Auracle »

capableweb wrote: post #15
grecy wrote: post #2

Starlink was designed for, and has always been intended for remote people who literally have no other connection option. No cable, no 3G or 4G. If you can get those other options, Starlink is not a product designed for you. Go remote, and Starlink is an absolute game changer without even a remotely close equal.

It's gonna be interesting to see how they solve the financials. Targeting a rural/spare population via expensive satellite connections, that market has to be relatively limited. And with a limited amount of customers, how does it make business sense?

Rural doesn't mean poor.
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