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A Reply to Josef Průša

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Re: A Reply to Josef Průša

#101

Post by TaylorAlexander »

gpt5 wrote: post #98

Some background the author is missing in his post, which I believe is the real reason Prusa is concerned about open source hardware. Up until a year ago, Prusa was the clear leading 3d printer at their price point, giving them strong sales number at healthy margins. Last year, a Chinese company founded by ex DJI employees (Bambi Lab) has created an innovative printer that matched/surpassed the Prusa lineup and at a v…

> Some background the author is missing in his post

The author of the post, Stargirl Flowers, is a woman btw.

Re: A Reply to Josef Průša

#102

Post by 1letterunixname »

gpt5 wrote: post #98

Some background the author is missing in his post, which I believe is the real reason Prusa is concerned about open source hardware. Up until a year ago, Prusa was the clear leading 3d printer at their price point, giving them strong sales number at healthy margins. Last year, a Chinese company founded by ex DJI employees (Bambi Lab) has created an innovative printer that matched/surpassed the Prusa lineup and at a v…

I'll keep my M3KS+ + MMU2S + Bear + OctoPrint, but I'm no longer interested in Prusa products.

Re: A Reply to Josef Průša

#103

Post by asddubs »

cowl wrote: post #64
amelius wrote: post #9

Perhaps he should use a license where a company has to pay if they sell more than $N copies of the product, or something along those lines.

Most of the cheap "copies" are not copies at all though. They are Iterations on the idea like Prusa was an Iteration itself. Most people when talk about copies talk about products like Creality Ender whihc in fact has so little or nothing of Prusa Designs. The frame is completly different (Extruded Aluminuium profiles vs Single piece cut) the movement guides are completly different (Rollers on V Aluminium profiles vs…

incidentally the original ender 3 is also open hardware

Re: A Reply to Josef Průša

#104

Post by cthalupa »

gpt5 wrote: post #98

Some background the author is missing in his post, which I believe is the real reason Prusa is concerned about open source hardware. Up until a year ago, Prusa was the clear leading 3d printer at their price point, giving them strong sales number at healthy margins. Last year, a Chinese company founded by ex DJI employees (Bambi Lab) has created an innovative printer that matched/surpassed the Prusa lineup and at a v…

>Luckily, Prusa has just release two printers that seem very good on paper (the MK4 and XL),

It's weird to me that Prusa is bemoaning the state of open hardware in the 3D printer space right as he releases a CoreXY-kinematics based printer, a family of printer design that has been pushed almost exclusively by the volunteer community and small companies over the past half decade. The PrusaXL has taken quite a few learnings from the Voron community, V-Core's Ratrig, and all the other related open projects in that space.

I like Prusa and I like Prusa made printers, but it feels weird to me for him to say that they are keeping their designs closed source because the benefits received are one-way while the PrusaXL is shipping.

Re: A Reply to Josef Průša

#105

Post by nullc »

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #99
nullc wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The license is the limit, the worst you are allow to behave before you are breaking the law. You're not necessarily good actor just because you're within the bounds of the license. It's important that licenses permit broadly rather than trying to set a tight boundary because if you get wrapped up in litigation over the boundary it can result in life destroying expenses. Prudent people should stay well away from the h…

This is fine but what I’ve heard about China is that they operate as a low-trust society where the norm is to get away with as much as possible, even going beyond the legal limits if you don’t think the consequences will matter. So this idea that we have licenses and then on top of that we have social norms falls apart when you have a somewhat insular country with their own more permissive norms. Now I am a huge prop…

It's a fine point, but same parties that will do that will ignore the licenses in any case.

Re: A Reply to Josef Průša

#106

Post by cryptonector »

Open source is a business tool to a business. To some extent open source is a business tool to individuals, too (e.g., to get oneself hired).

For a business open source can be about building mind-share. Businesses that have mind-share often want to build vendor lock-in, enough so at least to make a decent profit. But it's a struggle because the vendor lock-in can destroy the mind-share building. The best way forward isn't always obvious.

Re: A Reply to Josef Průša

#107

Post by tjmaxal »

What Josef wants is an open patent ultimately. That’s fine. Just don’t call it open source. Patent all the things you can and then publish whatever you like. There’s no shame in patenting work you actually made. Publishing patented work under whatever license you want to make up is better than a fully closed product by a mile. Instead of hang wringing over what is the soul of open source just stand up and honestly say “Hey I’d like control over my own work” then share it or don’t as you see fit. It’s far more honest and straightforward.

Re: A Reply to Josef Průša

#108

Post by TaylorAlexander »

nullc wrote: post #105
TaylorAlexander wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is fine but what I’ve heard about China is that they operate as a low-trust society where the norm is to get away with as much as possible, even going beyond the legal limits if you don’t think the consequences will matter. So this idea that we have licenses and then on top of that we have social norms falls apart when you have a somewhat insular country with their own more permissive norms. Now I am a huge prop…

It's a fine point, but same parties that will do that will ignore the licenses in any case.

Well Prusa was considering a less open but “source available” kind of license, which as you say would do nothing to stop unscrupulous people.

Also we did have luck forcing Creality to release their source code once it was found that they violated the GPL.

Re: A Reply to Josef Průša

#109

Post by protocolture »

Mr Prusa just wants to walk on both sides of the street when it comes to open source.

You cant have "Look at how great our community is, and the open source spirit" while also shrieking like an entitled Karen that someone cloned your hardware that you explicitly allowed them to do.

Re: A Reply to Josef Průša

#110

Post by antoniuschan99 »

I thought that was the Prusa Model, open source the design once it is a generation behind

E3D has the same issues too with the Revo ppl are upset that it’s closed source but I think ultimately these companies will have a mix of open and closed source things (like v6 is opened source but revo is closed source)

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