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Italian government seeks to penalize the use of English words

cnn.com

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Re: Italian government seeks to penalize the use of English words

#61

Post by hunglee2 »

_vbnz wrote: post #33
hunglee2 wrote: post #14

I think we (Americans and Europeans alike) wholly underestimate how Americanised European culture is becoming. This is an observation rather than a criticism as I don't know whether this is 'good' or 'bad' but it is noticeable phenomena manifest through language, and probably an unintended consequence of the dependency of Europe on US communication technology, leading to the import of US communication styles, politic…

Yeah, it was shocking here in Stockholm when there were BLM protests in 2020. It's like people are more involved in US politics than their national politics.

yes indeed. Probably everyone in Stockholm knows 'George Floyd' but would be entirely unaware of the names of locals who have suffered police brutality right there at home

Re: Italian government seeks to penalize the use of English words

#62

Post by turbonaut »

kuboble wrote: post #48
cm2187 wrote: post #41

Whether the UK is part of the EU or not is irrelevant to using english as a mean of communication between europeans. I remember a study from the French ministry of education which estimated for each language, what was the percentage of the EU population, to which it is not a native language, that studied it as a foreign language either in high school or university. German and italian are in the 15-20% range, french a…

My personal hope is that the EU would make a plan to adopt English as the only official language. Now that UK is gone it can't be seen as unfairly promoting one country. I think the example of Switzerland shows that there is no problem if spoken language is different from official language.

English remains an official language in the Republic of Ireland and Malta.

Re: Italian government seeks to penalize the use of English words

#63

Post by lxgr »

unpopularopp wrote: post #18

Good. Americans are usually not aware of the extent of american cultural imperialism which is basically everywhere, not just in Europe but you can see it very strong here I'm not saying it's bad or good. But I wish we have less Hollywood, less Netflix, less american music, less american videogames, less imported american culture topics etc when actual local music, movies, books, games exist.

I enjoy local music, books and games a lot, but legally enforcing "less American culture" seems like a really strange/indirect way of supporting local productions. Why shouldn’t people be allowed to choose what they spend their money and time on?

And if you think that there should be more support for their producers to compete with Hollywood budgets: Have you watched the credits of any European film or TV production recently? There are lots of government funds (EU and national/local) being spent on just that.

Also, Netflix has probably done more for both the funding and international distribution of European TV shows than all European streaming services combined.

Re: Italian government seeks to penalize the use of English words

#64

Post by hunglee2 »

adventured wrote: post #30
hunglee2 wrote: post #14

I think we (Americans and Europeans alike) wholly underestimate how Americanised European culture is becoming. This is an observation rather than a criticism as I don't know whether this is 'good' or 'bad' but it is noticeable phenomena manifest through language, and probably an unintended consequence of the dependency of Europe on US communication technology, leading to the import of US communication styles, politic…

Well you'd need a lot more than an Internet independent of the US. The same US cultural influence was prominent before the Internet became popular. You'd either need a new super popular language apart from the globally popular English, and or you'd need English to decline substantially (this would decimate the US cultural output/reach/influence). It's worth noting that a variation of language collapse may be occurrin…

very good point - I think EU bureaucracy may well create a version of the US internet which is at least a different flavour to that which the US citizens use have access to. Italy banning ChatGPT on GDPR grounds for example - surely there will be a (very bad) local replacement which Italians can then use. However rather than a different internet altogether, it might just be a washed out version of what the US uses

Re: Italian government seeks to penalize the use of English words

#65

Post by Eddy_Viscosity2 »

raspo wrote: post #58

As an Italian now living abroad, every time I go back I am horrified by the way Italians mis-use all sorts of English words in many contexts of life... One example: "smart-working". At the beginning of the pandemic, when we all started to "work remotely" or "work from home", Italians decided to call it "Smart Working". The first time I heard this term from a relative I was very confused, I thought it was just young p…

They needed a word for this new thing so they took it from english. English itself steals words from all languages should it need a new word for thing. There's no governing body for language, people just use the words they think work best. You say this type of word use doesn't benefit anybody, but it does, it benefits the people who needed a word for a new thing and now have one. Words are just mouth noises after all, it doesn't really matter what it is, only that everyone agree what it means.

Re: Italian government seeks to penalize the use of English words

#66

Post by thesuperbigfrog »

unpopularopp wrote: post #18

Good. Americans are usually not aware of the extent of american cultural imperialism which is basically everywhere, not just in Europe but you can see it very strong here I'm not saying it's bad or good. But I wish we have less Hollywood, less Netflix, less american music, less american videogames, less imported american culture topics etc when actual local music, movies, books, games exist.

>> Americans are usually not aware of the extent of american cultural imperialism which is basically everywhere, not just in Europe but you can see it very strong here

I would argue that the US (and perhaps some other English-speaking countries) need more cultural diversity imported from other parts of the world.

Many Americans are unaware because they have not traveled outside of the US nor have they studied other languages, cultures, music, etc.

The Internet and the growth of global media has helped, but it's not the same as going to another place and meeting the people there.

Re: Italian government seeks to penalize the use of English words

#67

Post by meerita »

alex_suzuki wrote: post #2

Italy really knows how to focus on what’s really important to address challenges like high unemployment and weak economy.

It's important to remember that just because the press may highlight certain topics more frequently, it doesn't necessarily mean that the government is not putting enough effort into other essential issues.

Re: Italian government seeks to penalize the use of English words

#68

Post by jsnell »

kuboble wrote: post #48
cm2187 wrote: post #41

Whether the UK is part of the EU or not is irrelevant to using english as a mean of communication between europeans. I remember a study from the French ministry of education which estimated for each language, what was the percentage of the EU population, to which it is not a native language, that studied it as a foreign language either in high school or university. German and italian are in the 15-20% range, french a…

My personal hope is that the EU would make a plan to adopt English as the only official language. Now that UK is gone it can't be seen as unfairly promoting one country. I think the example of Switzerland shows that there is no problem if spoken language is different from official language.

How does Switzerland demonstrate that?

Re: Italian government seeks to penalize the use of English words

#69

Post by tluyben2 »

kuboble wrote: post #48
cm2187 wrote: post #41

Whether the UK is part of the EU or not is irrelevant to using english as a mean of communication between europeans. I remember a study from the French ministry of education which estimated for each language, what was the percentage of the EU population, to which it is not a native language, that studied it as a foreign language either in high school or university. German and italian are in the 15-20% range, french a…

My personal hope is that the EU would make a plan to adopt English as the only official language. Now that UK is gone it can't be seen as unfairly promoting one country. I think the example of Switzerland shows that there is no problem if spoken language is different from official language.

I don’t care which language it is, but pick one as the official one. English makes sense economically. German cannot happen because the past. Spanish or German or French are all fine, but of course it cannot be agreed on. So English makes it easier as well for that reasons maybe.

Re: Italian government seeks to penalize the use of English words

#70

Post by riffraff »

raspo wrote: post #58

As an Italian now living abroad, every time I go back I am horrified by the way Italians mis-use all sorts of English words in many contexts of life... One example: "smart-working". At the beginning of the pandemic, when we all started to "work remotely" or "work from home", Italians decided to call it "Smart Working". The first time I heard this term from a relative I was very confused, I thought it was just young p…

FWIW, "smart working" was not invented during the pandemic, it's been in use since the '00s. But yeah, pseudoanglicisms abound in Italian.
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