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For the first time, renewable energy generation beat out coal in the US

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Re: For the first time, renewable energy generation beat out coal in the US

#211

Post by toomuchtodo »

kragen wrote: post #144
toomuchtodo wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct. Legislation to disincentive rooftop solar works until battery economics improve sufficiently, at which point the install velocity accelerates because you can sidestep unfavorable net metering or time of day pricing. You’ll then consume your own solar during production, consume it from batteries when not producing, and relying on the grid for shortfall. The next fight will be the legal ability to disconnect f…

you could imagine governments charging a yearly tax for having solar panels installed, analogous to the property tax many charge on real estate

Spain tried something similar and reversed course eventually.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-spain-politics-electricit...

Re: For the first time, renewable energy generation beat out coal in the US

#212

Post by vishnugupta »

thehappypm wrote: post #54
tmountain wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have solar on my roof, but I had to negotiate a net metering agreement with my utility company. I have friends saying the same utility company is now pushing back on new agreements. It seems that stupid issues will need to be resolved before solar hits a critical mass. That said, batteries help.

Net metering is a bad deal for utilities, though. The “delivery” part of the cost of electricity is more than half; it accounts for the maintenance of the grid etc. People dumping energy into the grid doesn’t lower that cost.

The transmission corporation in the state where I live India has had net metering option for a while now. They recently introduced grid maintenance cost chargeable to those exporting solar power to the grid. Despite that it's no brainer for us here to install roof top solar with net metering.

Re: For the first time, renewable energy generation beat out coal in the US

#213

Post by pyrale »

soitgoes511 wrote: post #96
ericmay wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or maybe Europe does have it figured out and an unforeseen shock to the system temporarily set back plans?

I love the idea of clean energy. But the energy "sobriety" we have been experiencing this year in France particularly has been painful. TF1 educated the population on the nightly news on how to block our door jams to not lose energy and warmth. Villages were creating centers for people to go and stay warm. Boulangeries have been shutting down because they cannot afford the still increasing cost of energy. Whatever th…

> Boulangeries have been shutting down because they cannot afford the still increasing cost of energy.

I still shudder at the perspective of a looming croissant shortage.

Re: For the first time, renewable energy generation beat out coal in the US

#214

Post by pyrale »

goatlover wrote: post #169
adrianN wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"A crazy rate" that is unfortunately still much too slow to limit warming to 2° or below.

Was limiting warning below 2° ever realistic? I can't understand why 1.5° when it was clear to everyone that there was no way in hell that is happening. Why not set a realistic goal and try to figure out the best way to deal with the consequences?

It depends on what you call realistic. If your objection to realism is that it's hard to convince politicians to act on this topic, then 2° is still not very realistic, and the future is likely going to be very bleak.

If it's about having the understanding and technical means to define new targets for our economy in order to reach that goal, even if it means reducing our consumption, then yes, it was a reasonable goal back when we started considering the issue seriously.

Re: For the first time, renewable energy generation beat out coal in the US

#215

Post by konschubert »

photochemsyn wrote: post #106

This would have happened a bit earlier if the most efficient and long-lasting solar panels, monocrystalline silicon, had been developed by US manufacturers instead of by Chinese ones. All the tariffs applied by state and federal regulators on the import of these panels have been about slowing the rate of solar PV production in the USA on behalf of the fossil fuel and investor-owned utility sectors. https://www.pv-mag…

Your comment makes no sense.

The tariffs boosted domestic production of solar panels.

The tariffs also increased the cost of solar panels, so they slowed adoption of solar.

You can have Made in America, or you can have cheap, but you cannot have both.

Re: For the first time, renewable energy generation beat out coal in the US

#216

Post by catiopatio »

adrianN wrote: post #207
rapsey wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chinese panels are cheap because they use slave labor to produce them.

How many people actually work in a solar panel factory? I'd expect that to be almost completely automated.

Why would you expect that?

Re: For the first time, renewable energy generation beat out coal in the US

#217

Post by amelius »

somesortofsystm wrote: post #185
nroets wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should the US try to lead solar panel technology ? China has many talented engineers and plenty of venture capital. I'd prefer them to invest it in solar panel manufacturing and power electronics rather than social media, ai or Telco technology.

Just stop. China as a manufacturing solution for anyone but the people of the region must cease. It is utterly inefficient to produce stuff far, far from where it will be used. Spreading things out like this is balls. Lets start building again. If we're to get off this dust-ball, we have to learn to do things ourselves, again.

Would you rather spread all the pollution sources over the world as opposed to keeping them in one place (wherever that may be)?

Re: For the first time, renewable energy generation beat out coal in the US

#218

Post by pyrale »

anovikov wrote: post #26
adrianN wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"A crazy rate" that is unfortunately still much too slow to limit warming to 2° or below.

Forget global warming. Of course it will not be stopped. All fossil fuels will be burnt till full exhaustion of reserves, until the remainder is completely uneconomical to extract. But then the nations that were the last to start switching will find their economies too inefficient and expensive to run with the fossil fuels while everyone else is using much cheaper renewables, and will probably no longer have money fo…

> But then the nations that were the last to start switching will find their economies too inefficient and expensive to run with the fossil fuels while everyone else is using much cheaper renewables, and will probably no longer have money for the switch, ending up in a major predicament.

If all the fossil fuel is burned, we will probably never reach that point ; society breakdown will happen sooner.

Re: For the first time, renewable energy generation beat out coal in the US

#219

Post by fbdab103 »

voisin wrote: post #77
travisporter wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in the southeast and was quoted 35k for a 7kw Solar and 36k for two power walls. With tax credits,~50k

I’m in BC, Canada and just pulled the trigger on 14.56 kw if ground mount for $42k CAD, tax included. Wondering why Solar is so much more expensive (ignoring the batteries) in your area? I’d think it would be a lot cheaper with more competition. Going with Longi bifacial panels - does the US restrict or add huge duties on Chinese panels?

GP did not mention the mounting option, so I assume they were going for a roof installation. Which has to be a significant markup vs ground mount. I am only partially handy, but even I could throw some poles in the ground and a frame to hold solar panels. Doing the same for a roof would be significantly beyond my abilities.

Re: For the first time, renewable energy generation beat out coal in the US

#220

Post by catiopatio »

bialpio wrote: post #210
peoplefromibiza wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question: so why aren't iPhones cheap? EDIT: thanks for all the answers, IIUC it boils down to "nobody cares if a luxury item from a western company is built on slavery, the only thing that matters is that poor people who built it cannot afford it"

I have experienced a culture shock after moving to the US and looking at prices for some items. The best summary I have is "in USA, the thing is worth as much as people are willing to pay for it", unlike the previous mindset I had, roughly "take the cost of producing something and add X% markup" where X is not too high.

Where did you come from?

What you’ve described is specific to humanity, not the US — “the thing is worth as much as people are willing to pay for it” is a near universal truth.

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