Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

UK Treasury trying to find a Head of Cyber Security for £55k

infosec.exchange

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

171–180 of 245 posts

Re: UK Treasury trying to find a Head of Cyber Security for £55k

#171

Post by a_humean »

dukeyukey wrote: post #135
makingstuffs wrote: post #86

I get a lot job offers in my LinkedIn inbox and newsletters from places like glass door as I like to keep my eye on the market. One thing I’ve been seeing a lot recently is salaries for dev roles steadily dropping in the UK. The concerning thing, in my opinion, is that the poster linked by OP seems disillusioned as to the standard of living in the UK. They specifically mention being paid £55k as being equivalent to $…

I'm in London, and don't recognise most of this. Like, I live in Zone 2 with a rent of £1600/month, including heating. My previous place (only a few months ago) was £1450, also in Zone 2. My company is revving up hiring, and we've definitely not seen salaries decrease. If anything, we're prepared to pay more to basically anyone who isn't a new grad.

So I live in zone 3 in south west london and my rent is 1500pcm. I signed that rental contract in 2021, but since then average rents in my area have gone up 25% (my salary has gone up by ~10% in that time). My contract is coming up for renewal, and I'm bracing myself for 1800-1900 terms from my landlord. This has happened everywhere in London - 15% increases in the past year alone.

Seriously questioning whether to stay in London itself, but even outside of London rents have gone up crazy amounts given the average salaries of those areas. This country is starting to become unaffordable despite the fact that I'm technically >97th income percentile.

Re: UK Treasury trying to find a Head of Cyber Security for £55k

#172

Post by SamuelAdams »

mkl95 wrote: post #123
jstx1 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are only so many high paying jobs. When someone on HN says that they have a £100k+ job in the UK, that means that it's possible for some number of people to get those jobs but not everyone who's on £40k can double or triple their salary, there aren't enough opportunities to do so.

I was a mid level - seniorish engineer at the time. We initially discussed that 6 figure role, but I did not feel ready at all. They said it was fine and that the range for the level below was £75-85k, which I thought was pretty good. It was a big corp in the health industry btw.

This is interesting. What specific skills are required that made you feel you are not ready for a higher paying role?

Re: UK Treasury trying to find a Head of Cyber Security for £55k

#173

Post by camdenreslink »

sandworm101 wrote: post #104
baazaa wrote: post #75

This is a problem across the civil service, although not as stark as this example usually. The cult of the generalist has long meant that specific skills are considered almost worthless. Instead of the civil service being an assemblage of people with different skill-sets, it instead consists chiefly of administrators with no more skills than a high-school graduate (although they do have tertiary degrees). Jobs which…

I seriously doubt that the head of cyber security at such a place would ever do any coding. The primary job would be administrative, the needed skill the management of people. 55k is a joke, but lets not pretend that this position requires l33t hacking skills. This is a job about hiring and firing people, about selecting policy and judging the qualification of prospective contractors. And it's a job about writing rep…

Head of cyber security at a private company would be somebody with a career of hands-on security work, that has moved up into management. This person would absolutely know how to do the job of their reports.

Why should the government be any different?

Re: UK Treasury trying to find a Head of Cyber Security for £55k

#174

Post by rwalle »

sandworm101 wrote: post #133
FartyMcFarter wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if you never did any coding, you may not understand enough to effectively lead a team of people who do that. For example, how are you going to understand what's going on or resolve technical conflicts? Just outsourcing all the decisions probably makes you much less useful.

Such skills are certainly a bonus, but they would not be a requirement. It is common thinking that every good general should first have been a good footsoldier. The reality is that the vast majority of great generals never were. The most important skills for senior leaders to succeed are rarely similar to those needed to succeed on the front lines of any project.

I have to ask, have you ever been a manager at any level at any company? Are you just imagining all these things?

Re: UK Treasury trying to find a Head of Cyber Security for £55k

#175

Post by dukeyukey »

roundandround wrote: post #144
FartyMcFarter wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if you never did any coding, you may not understand enough to effectively lead a team of people who do that. For example, how are you going to understand what's going on or resolve technical conflicts? Just outsourcing all the decisions probably makes you much less useful.

The people this manager leads will also not be coders. Governments make virtually no software and any of that would be in a group that is still not connected to the group overseeing overall security. If he has a windows machine he is familiar with what it does on Tuesdays.. From there its learning about CVEs, etc..

Can't talk about this department specifically, but the UK government does have a tech department (GDS, Government Digital Service), and they're actually really good, especially in accessibility.

Re: UK Treasury trying to find a Head of Cyber Security for £55k

#176

Post by a_humean »

dubcanada wrote: post #100
makingstuffs wrote: post #86

I get a lot job offers in my LinkedIn inbox and newsletters from places like glass door as I like to keep my eye on the market. One thing I’ve been seeing a lot recently is salaries for dev roles steadily dropping in the UK. The concerning thing, in my opinion, is that the poster linked by OP seems disillusioned as to the standard of living in the UK. They specifically mention being paid £55k as being equivalent to $…

What part of > £55k as being equivalent to $100k in the US Is not? I don't see any argument for that not being correct. Everything you said about costs, sounds that exact same as $100k in the US. Unless you live in North Dakota, chances are you are paying pretty close to the same percentages for rent/foot in a larger city such as San Fran or Chicago. Not exactly sure what zone 5 is, but a rough search gave me $2500 f…

London is basically one big urban circle. Everything in London is directed towards the centre of the city. Zone 1-6 is roughly a measure your distance from the centre of London, which is also the centre of economic activity with many international HQs, banks, insurance markets, government departments, and startup offices based there. Its also where all of the major entertainment and tourist locations are.

Zone 1 is typically very expensive. Typically, with some variation, it gets less expensive as you go to outer zones. Zone 5/6 is getting to the outer reaches of the city, and historically was much more affordable at the cost of >60 minute commutes into zone 1 and higher fare costs.

You also need to keep in mind that the marginal tax rate can be very high. This is esp true for UK university graduates that typically are repaying what is technically a "student loan", but even the government's statisticians call a tax because almost nobody will pay it off in their lifetime given the repayment terms. Many graduates have marginal tax rates in excess of 50% on incomes above roughly 40k.

Re: UK Treasury trying to find a Head of Cyber Security for £55k

#177

Post by dukeyukey »

sumedh wrote: post #168
makingstuffs wrote: post #86

I get a lot job offers in my LinkedIn inbox and newsletters from places like glass door as I like to keep my eye on the market. One thing I’ve been seeing a lot recently is salaries for dev roles steadily dropping in the UK. The concerning thing, in my opinion, is that the poster linked by OP seems disillusioned as to the standard of living in the UK. They specifically mention being paid £55k as being equivalent to $…

> I will not be surprised to see an exodus of skilled workers over the next decade. Two people from the UK joined my team in Australia who work in tech in the last two months. They both had the same complaint, life is not good in UK.

Keep in mind those are people who purposefully moved to Australia. I know plenty of Aussies here in London who left Australia, usually due to poor job opportunities or culture.

Re: UK Treasury trying to find a Head of Cyber Security for £55k

#178

Post by mkl95 »

SamuelAdams wrote: post #172
mkl95 wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was a mid level - seniorish engineer at the time. We initially discussed that 6 figure role, but I did not feel ready at all. They said it was fine and that the range for the level below was £75-85k, which I thought was pretty good. It was a big corp in the health industry btw.

This is interesting. What specific skills are required that made you feel you are not ready for a higher paying role?

It was a combination of factors such as very specific problems being solved in an industry I was clueless about, a tech stack I had never worked with, etc. In that kind of situation I would rather take an IC role initially and step up later on.

Re: UK Treasury trying to find a Head of Cyber Security for £55k

#179

Post by sandworm101 »

camdenreslink wrote: post #173
sandworm101 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I seriously doubt that the head of cyber security at such a place would ever do any coding. The primary job would be administrative, the needed skill the management of people. 55k is a joke, but lets not pretend that this position requires l33t hacking skills. This is a job about hiring and firing people, about selecting policy and judging the qualification of prospective contractors. And it's a job about writing rep…

Head of cyber security at a private company would be somebody with a career of hands-on security work, that has moved up into management. This person would absolutely know how to do the job of their reports. Why should the government be any different?

Because this isnt a private company. This person first needs the skills to integrate and exist within a government structure. Management of public employees within a government is very different than at will employees within a private organization. Working under politically appointed or elected adminstrators is also very different than working for a CEO.

Re: UK Treasury trying to find a Head of Cyber Security for £55k

#180

Post by sandworm101 »

rwalle wrote: post #174
sandworm101 wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Such skills are certainly a bonus, but they would not be a requirement. It is common thinking that every good general should first have been a good footsoldier. The reality is that the vast majority of great generals never were. The most important skills for senior leaders to succeed are rarely similar to those needed to succeed on the front lines of any project.

I have to ask, have you ever been a manager at any level at any company? Are you just imagining all these things?

Actually, was a manger in the private sector (legal) and am now in the public sector (military). I have seen both sides and have seen managers succeed and fail in both transitions.
Post reply on HN