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For the first time, renewable energy generation beat out coal in the US

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Re: For the first time, renewable energy generation beat out coal in the US

#21

Post by groestl »

nasmorn wrote: post #16
brutusborn wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a source for north of 70%? I’m not implying it’s incorrect, but I haven’t seen any papers with this level of efficiency for similar proposals.

The 70% is not for conversion into electricity but for total useable energy if the waste heat is used in district heating networks. It can reach up to 80% of the primary fuel used. While that seems worse then simply burning it at the end user you have to keep in mind that you also gain electricity which can be used to drive a heat pump. This is by far the best way to burn gas if heat is needed as a result. https://en…

Yepp. The power plant in my area claims 83% efficiency for that pipeline already (natural gas to electricity & heat), using heat coupling (about 50% electricity). And they're working on powering that with hydrogen in the future.

Re: For the first time, renewable energy generation beat out coal in the US

#22

Post by adrianN »

anovikov wrote: post #19

It's so funny to read discussions of "whether or not renewables are viable for replacement of all or most of electricity needs in the U.S.". Here in Europe, we have it figured many years ago and are replacing fossil-fueled generation at a crazy rate, will probably push it to a niche use (gas peakers to fill void when there's neither sun or wind and before enough electrolyzers are put online), in less than 10 years.

"A crazy rate" that is unfortunately still much too slow to limit warming to 2° or below.

Re: For the first time, renewable energy generation beat out coal in the US

#23

Post by melling »

adrianN wrote: post #7

Nice. The economics of renewables are really hard to beat. I hope we speed up the construction speed and at the same time electrify more sectors.

Excellent. There are only a few thousand coal power plants globally

https://www.statista.com/statistics/859266/number-of-coal-po...

They generate something like 25% of greenhouse gases. When should be expect these to be replaced, and get the 25% drop in emissions?

Replacing over a billion ICE cars seems with EV’s is going to be so much more work, for example.

An immediate 25% drop in emissions might even buy us a few more years before we need to get to net zero emissions.

Re: For the first time, renewable energy generation beat out coal in the US

#24

Post by martyvis »

audunw wrote: post #6
jokoon wrote: post #2

It doesn't really matter if renewable generated more energy than coal for 1 day. What matters is annual generation. Renewables generates 5 times less than coal annually and still peak for a short period of time, so this is not a big progress. Wind turbines can have big energy peaks when it's very windy, but there is no cheap way to store that energy for a long period of time, WHICH IS WHY NUCLEAR IS THE GREENEST BASE…

> but there is no cheap way to store that energy for a long period of time It's getting close to the point that wind+storage can compete with nuclear, and even gas, on price. With the way cost has been developing on renewables and energy storage sulitons it's more or less inevitable. You're also starting to see off-shore wind, even floating off-shore, come rapidly down in cost, and those have more stable generation a…

Here is a pumped hydro project which will be able to store maybe ¼ of Australia's electricity needed for a week. https://www.snowyhydro.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/SH1...

Re: For the first time, renewable energy generation beat out coal in the US

#25

Post by jillesvangurp »

adrianN wrote: post #7

Nice. The economics of renewables are really hard to beat. I hope we speed up the construction speed and at the same time electrify more sectors.

One thing that's often overlooked in statistics like this is roof top solar because it's just not that easy to account for. In places like Australia, where double digit percentages of homes have solar and where building codes are actually being changed to require solar panels, this is a non trivial amount that is putting a lot of pressure on energy suppliers to adapt. Effectively whole states are running on solar when the sun comes out (which it does a lot over there). Whether they like it or not, demand for grid electricity drops a lot whenever these panels are producing. And of course a lot of people are installing batteries as well. That must be happening in the US as well and it must be having some impact.

https://www.seia.org/solar-industry-research-data This article seems to suggest that the amount of installed solar has doubled in the last four years and that the pace is accelerating. Also it states that the solar market expanded by 40% last year.

Re: For the first time, renewable energy generation beat out coal in the US

#26

Post by anovikov »

adrianN wrote: post #22
anovikov wrote: post #19

It's so funny to read discussions of "whether or not renewables are viable for replacement of all or most of electricity needs in the U.S.". Here in Europe, we have it figured many years ago and are replacing fossil-fueled generation at a crazy rate, will probably push it to a niche use (gas peakers to fill void when there's neither sun or wind and before enough electrolyzers are put online), in less than 10 years.

"A crazy rate" that is unfortunately still much too slow to limit warming to 2° or below.

Forget global warming. Of course it will not be stopped. All fossil fuels will be burnt till full exhaustion of reserves, until the remainder is completely uneconomical to extract. But then the nations that were the last to start switching will find their economies too inefficient and expensive to run with the fossil fuels while everyone else is using much cheaper renewables, and will probably no longer have money for the switch, ending up in a major predicament.

Re: For the first time, renewable energy generation beat out coal in the US

#27

Post by fnordpiglet »

verisimi wrote: post #10
adrianN wrote: post #7

Nice. The economics of renewables are really hard to beat. I hope we speed up the construction speed and at the same time electrify more sectors.

Really? Solar gives lots of electricity in the summer. But you have light and warmth then. In the winter when you need the electricity, you get maybe 1/10 of whatever the solar array is capable of. Wind is not generally viable, except in very windy locations. Biogas (eg anaerobic digestors) seems much more possible - but even these need warmth to run well - so aren't as good in the winter. And when you think that yes…

Really? What control does the government have over renewables? Fossil fuels bought the government and nuclear is entirely controlled by the government.

Edit: Tesla cars at 200k miles typically retain 80% of their total capacity. The 10 years you quote is the full warranty period. Additionally it costs about $10k to replace the batteries. House hold battery’s last about 20+ years, with 30+ possible without daily draw (quoted based on Tesla power wall specs).

I don’t know where you’re getting your battery facts from, but they’re essentially wrong. I suspect it’s not renewables that’s been captured but your biases.

Re: For the first time, renewable energy generation beat out coal in the US

#28

Post by digdugdirk »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #25
adrianN wrote: post #7

Nice. The economics of renewables are really hard to beat. I hope we speed up the construction speed and at the same time electrify more sectors.

One thing that's often overlooked in statistics like this is roof top solar because it's just not that easy to account for. In places like Australia, where double digit percentages of homes have solar and where building codes are actually being changed to require solar panels, this is a non trivial amount that is putting a lot of pressure on energy suppliers to adapt. Effectively whole states are running on solar whe…

Keep in mind that many US states are actively implementing legislation to disincentivize solar installation.

Not disagreeing with your statement, just pointing out that there's many headwinds to a greener energy future.

Re: For the first time, renewable energy generation beat out coal in the US

#29

Post by lenkite »

anovikov wrote: post #19

It's so funny to read discussions of "whether or not renewables are viable for replacement of all or most of electricity needs in the U.S.". Here in Europe, we have it figured many years ago and are replacing fossil-fueled generation at a crazy rate, will probably push it to a niche use (gas peakers to fill void when there's neither sun or wind and before enough electrolyzers are put online), in less than 10 years.

It is not at all funny when apparently Germany had to reopen coal plants.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-10-21/germany-b...

"Utility Steag GmbH will add four hard-coal plants with a capacity of 2.5 gigawatts to the market within the next few weeks, while Uniper SE will prolong operations at its 345-megawatt Scholven-C hard-coal-fired power plant, the companies said on Friday. "

https://www.npr.org/2022/09/27/1124448463/germany-coal-energ...

https://www.ft.com/content/9d3c8af8-ae00-4dc5-9e85-579681450...

"Germany turns to coal for a third of its electricity"

Re: For the first time, renewable energy generation beat out coal in the US

#30

Post by dwan128 »

lenkite wrote: post #29
anovikov wrote: post #19

It's so funny to read discussions of "whether or not renewables are viable for replacement of all or most of electricity needs in the U.S.". Here in Europe, we have it figured many years ago and are replacing fossil-fueled generation at a crazy rate, will probably push it to a niche use (gas peakers to fill void when there's neither sun or wind and before enough electrolyzers are put online), in less than 10 years.

It is not at all funny when apparently Germany had to reopen coal plants. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-10-21/germany-b... "Utility Steag GmbH will add four hard-coal plants with a capacity of 2.5 gigawatts to the market within the next few weeks, while Uniper SE will prolong operations at its 345-megawatt Scholven-C hard-coal-fired power plant, the companies said on Friday. " https://www.npr.org/2022/…

This seems really specific information that’s not really relevant to that parent comment. How did you learn about this and why do you care?
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