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What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide

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Re: What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide

#451

Post by midasuni »

gambiting wrote: post #414
slaw wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you point me to these plenty cheap areas? I work remotely and may consider moving there.

Around here in the North East of UK you can easily buy a house for around £100k. It won't be amazing or anything, but with banks offering 5% deposit mortgages pretty much anyone can save up for it and get on the property ladder. Of course the situation down south is completely different and the closer you get to London the more impossible it gets to ever buy your house.

For comparison that’s about 5 times minimum wage at 35 hours a week. You’d struggle to get a mortgage on your own without a £20k deposit but as a couple certainly no problem, and many entry jobs in supermarkets etc pay more than minimum wage.

Re: What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide

#452

Post by surfsvammel »

What? Is this really a problem in Sweden, or is it a problem in Stockholm? (Sure, I know some places like Lund has great inflow of high income earners, very little housing, driving prices, but that’s not the norm).

Stockholm has even traditionally been relatively cheaper(relative to salaries) compared to other capitals of Europe.

Re: What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide

#453

Post by plufz »

nemo44x wrote: post #172
Bellend wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe we are in a time where everyone is milking the 90s-20s real estate bubble and no one wants to be first to fold. Internationally, not just on a per country basis. As soon as say, French real estate collapses (or UK or USA or Germany etc), the whole rotten castle of cards will fold as well. If it doesn't you can enjoy the expensive property, but you won't be eating farmed foods, won't be in a clean environmen…

Why would it collapse? There’s insatiable demand for extreme limited property. Interest rate hikes may lower the price of property but the interest will rise proportionately. Do people really think at sone point no one will want premium property and I’ll finally get it cheap? Of course that will never happen.

I don’t know about your country. But in mine prices of property has not followed population growth, increased income or really anything that would make this growth sustainable. It has been a product of central banks setting way too low interest rates (and to a part lacking regulations).

Re: What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide

#454

Post by badpun »

hutzlibu wrote: post #429
erur wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's definitely not every city in Germany that has this problem. You're trying to live in one of the objectively best parts of Germany by a lot of stats and thus you're competing with a lot of folks. I'm honestly sick of this whining about rent in top-tier areas. Living there is a luxury, given the major move to cities and scarcity, driven by insane regulations and basic logic. There are plenty of cities in Germany w…

"I'm honestly sick of this whining about rent in top-tier areas. Living there is a luxury" Hm, I am quite sure, that even luxury areas need garbage people. If the top income people are having problems living there, how is that socially sustainable at all? Or is the solution, that the peasants all have to commute 2h plus every day?

The solution is to pay garbage people much more than in cheaper areas.

Re: What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide

#455

Post by MrDresden »

jdmoreira wrote: post #61

I'm in the highest percentiles of income in Sweden (public data is available) and it doesn't matter. It's basically impossible for me to afford a house / apartment for my family in the best neighborhoods. What's the point? What is the point of trying to be a high performer if wealth can't be acquired by income? Why would I want to work for anyone in this country? Only way out is equity and that game is even harder to…

Why waste the money and effort to buy something in the "best" neighborhood?

Status symbol? Who cares. For the investment? It doesn't seem like you can afford it, nor need it. Just buy someplace you can afford and make a nice home for your family.

If there is a genuine reason why that neighborhood is the best for you and yours, then ofcourse that is a different matter.

Re: What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide

#456

Post by [deleted] »

csomar wrote: post #229
nemo44x wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would it collapse? There’s insatiable demand for extreme limited property. Interest rate hikes may lower the price of property but the interest will rise proportionately. Do people really think at sone point no one will want premium property and I’ll finally get it cheap? Of course that will never happen.

If it doesn't collapse, then society may collapse? Like the sibling comment mentioned, you can only push this too far, and I think it's pushed too far to be very alarming. And housing is expensive by design and not by constraint. I'm staying in KL, a comparatively cheap place by Western standards. The housing market is crap here from a seller perspective as you have an over-supply of condos. That, despite the large a…

[deleted]

Re: What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide

#457

Post by toyg »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #209
watrami wrote: post #103

It seems like it's the same story everywhere I look. Housing is the main driver of inequality and there is little change happening. We have the same problem here in Germany. I am currently living in Munich to finish my CS Master's at TUM and build a startup, and it is absolutely impossible to find anything remotely affordable. I am supported by two startup scholarships and make enough to get by, but no landlord even…

> still gets rejected either for her financial situation or because the rental contract is already set to increase 8% each year - which we simply cannot afford. And it's not just Munich. Every city in Germany has this problem. The logical step, when individuals cannot afford their own rent, companies that need workers will be providing housing to their workers. And they will be able to evict them whenever they feel l…

Corporate feudalism was a big theme in cyberpunk literature, and lo...

If you consider that renting is basically "housing as a service", though, you can see where we're all subscribing to it (eh) a little bit more every day.

Re: What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide

#458

Post by ZephyrBlu »

danjac wrote: post #402
ZephyrBlu wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your GF gets rejected on a financial basis while making 75k euros? How expensive are the places she's trying to rent? > We are already looking to move to other places and created a university-wide google sheet where we compare different countries and cities around the world for those kinds of categories It seems like if you want to live anywhere that's desirable you have to pay an arm and a leg for rent, no matter wh…

75K is a good salary in Germany, well above the average of 49K: https://housinganywhere.com/Germany/average-salaries-in-germ...

Yes, that's my point. 75k euros is a good salary yet his GF was being rejected on financial grounds, which seems odd.

Re: What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide

#459

Post by plufz »

jjav wrote: post #340
csomar wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it doesn't collapse, then society may collapse? Like the sibling comment mentioned, you can only push this too far, and I think it's pushed too far to be very alarming. And housing is expensive by design and not by constraint. I'm staying in KL, a comparatively cheap place by Western standards. The housing market is crap here from a seller perspective as you have an over-supply of condos. That, despite the large a…

> If it doesn't collapse, then society may collapse? But there are plenty very cheap areas to buy houses or rent. Sure, many people don't want to live there, that's why it's cheap today. But it is a possibility nonetheless, one that is better than collapsing society. I'm always honestly confused why today it is seen as impossible to move to a cheap area? People have been doing this for generations (centuries?). It's…

Manhattan is one of the most expensive places in the world. I would guess most ppl are not really aspiring for that. I would guess that the problem for a lot of people is to continue being able to live in their medium sized city where they have all their friends, family and life.

Re: What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide

#460

Post by christkv »

ricardobayes wrote: post #396
watrami wrote: post #103

It seems like it's the same story everywhere I look. Housing is the main driver of inequality and there is little change happening. We have the same problem here in Germany. I am currently living in Munich to finish my CS Master's at TUM and build a startup, and it is absolutely impossible to find anything remotely affordable. I am supported by two startup scholarships and make enough to get by, but no landlord even…

If you are able to work remotely, Spain is fantastic at the moment. Relatively low real estate rent/purchase prices. You can still get a nice 3 bedroom house with a pool under 200k by the Mediterranean sea (of course well, not in Marbella). There are some surprisingly high-tech jobs locally as well, the space industry is booming right now. Lots of programming jobs in Madrid, Barcelona and Valencia even if you don't s…

I’ll put my own add in. Come to Asturias, you got mountain and sea right at your doorstep. Affordable, safe and welcoming. Also very temperate summers.
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