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What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide

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Re: What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide

#331

Post by f6v »

csomar wrote: post #229
nemo44x wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would it collapse? There’s insatiable demand for extreme limited property. Interest rate hikes may lower the price of property but the interest will rise proportionately. Do people really think at sone point no one will want premium property and I’ll finally get it cheap? Of course that will never happen.

If it doesn't collapse, then society may collapse? Like the sibling comment mentioned, you can only push this too far, and I think it's pushed too far to be very alarming. And housing is expensive by design and not by constraint. I'm staying in KL, a comparatively cheap place by Western standards. The housing market is crap here from a seller perspective as you have an over-supply of condos. That, despite the large a…

> If it doesn't collapse, then society may collapse? Like the sibling comment mentioned, you can only push this too far, and I think it's pushed too far to be very alarming.

First off, what are they going to do? It’s the same in most big cities(1 million+). Second, those working remotely can always move from Munich to Leipzig (where OP can rent 3bd for the price of his Munich studio). I don’t see society collapse happening. Just need a bit of population redistribution.

Re: What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide

#332

Post by deanc »

jdmoreira wrote: post #61

I'm in the highest percentiles of income in Sweden (public data is available) and it doesn't matter. It's basically impossible for me to afford a house / apartment for my family in the best neighborhoods. What's the point? What is the point of trying to be a high performer if wealth can't be acquired by income? Why would I want to work for anyone in this country? Only way out is equity and that game is even harder to…

I’ve heard about hundred year mortgages in Sweden where you basically never pay it off. Is this an option in the top earner bracket?

Re: What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide

#333

Post by [deleted] »

tpmx wrote: post #156
jdmoreira wrote: post #61

I'm in the highest percentiles of income in Sweden (public data is available) and it doesn't matter. It's basically impossible for me to afford a house / apartment for my family in the best neighborhoods. What's the point? What is the point of trying to be a high performer if wealth can't be acquired by income? Why would I want to work for anyone in this country? Only way out is equity and that game is even harder to…

This is the thing I'm always fascinated by in these stories - the complete lack of understanding for why not everyone can have everything in a particular place with finite resources. > I'm in the highest percentiles of income in Sweden Which one is it then? 80th? 90th? 99th? 99.5th? > It's basically impossible for me to afford a house / apartment for my family in the best neighborhoods. Which are the "best neighborho…

[deleted]

Re: What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide

#334

Post by riffraff »

baseline-shift wrote: post #217
kfarr wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the difference here is fundamentally there is insufficient supply for the demand of housing globally, or at least US, UK and EU. The previous generation made new builds extremely difficult or impossible in many jurisdictions.

Yes, insane zoning limits in cities in the US since the 60s have indeed made it impossible to build near jobs. But there's abandoned medieval villages (no plumbing or electricity so far...) in hilly rural Italy.

> But there's abandoned medieval villages (no plumbing or electricity so far...) in hilly rural Italy.

there's small towns with fine electricity and plumbing in rural Italy but they are de-populating anyway, cause most people want to live in/nearby cities as that is where money and opportunity generally is.

The same everywhere I think (bar few cases like the Netherlands which are basically a single sprawl).

Hungary just published their most recent census, and all of the country has depopulated in the last ten years except for Budapest.

The big hope is that the trend will reverse with more remote-ization, but it's, well, a hope.

Re: What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide

#335

Post by LegitShady »

triceratops wrote: post #300
LegitShady wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That basically meant my options are Liberal or NDP. NDP policies seem to think if I make more than 200K, I am a rich fat cat If you make $200k a year, you've got almost 3x the average household income in canada ($75k). You're way up there in terms of wealth, and don't need any help from the NDP or anyone else.

Wealth != income. Someone who bought a house 10 years ago could easily be wealthier than someone pulling down $200k today.

sure but the house isn't income, while $200k is income and enough to buy a house in some parts of this country every 3-5 years, if spent judiciously.

It's so far out the norm of normal income that anyone earning $200k in canada and complaining about the housing situation isn't in touch with what normal people in canada are experiencing and their complaints are ridiculous.

It's like a CEO yelling that you don't know how much they're paying in capital gains tax. It really isn't relevant.

Re: What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide

#336

Post by Roritharr »

At 35, the RE Bubble is the single thing that makes me have deep regrets about trying to be successful in startups for the past 15 years.

I've made a small exit, but by that point interest rates were already rising and the amount for a down payment got so large that buying a house in a way that makes financial sense still is out of reach.

Contrasting that with my friends who simply got a corporate job and bought something with next to no down payment and They had their holidays, I had my 60-80hr "responsible for everything" weeks. I'm pretty sure

I am not alone in this, judging by the amount of people I know in tech who adopted to become "digital nomads", living with their family in what I consider glorified trailerparks and home-schooling their kids.

Re: What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide

#337

Post by sunsunsunsun »

brailsafe wrote: post #69
jdmoreira wrote: post #61

I'm in the highest percentiles of income in Sweden (public data is available) and it doesn't matter. It's basically impossible for me to afford a house / apartment for my family in the best neighborhoods. What's the point? What is the point of trying to be a high performer if wealth can't be acquired by income? Why would I want to work for anyone in this country? Only way out is equity and that game is even harder to…

I'm in Vancouver working remotely for an EU/US company because I couldn't get anything here. At $100k CAD, my partner and I wouldn't be able to afford a modest upgrade to a 1 bedroom condo... anywhere in the city (from a tiny basement studio) without significantly increasing our take home. The place I just visited would require $4000/m after a 20% down payment (which I don't have). If I double my savings in the next…

I felt your pain. I live in Victoria and also make $100k but can't afford much more than a 1 bed without destroying our savings goals. Unfortunately my current job is hybrid and they won't let me go full remote. We plan to leave as soon as I find a new opportunity - despite loving living here by every other metric.

Re: What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide

#338

Post by MonaroVXR »

watrami wrote: post #103

It seems like it's the same story everywhere I look. Housing is the main driver of inequality and there is little change happening. We have the same problem here in Germany. I am currently living in Munich to finish my CS Master's at TUM and build a startup, and it is absolutely impossible to find anything remotely affordable. I am supported by two startup scholarships and make enough to get by, but no landlord even…

Same for the Netherlands

Re: What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide

#339

Post by theshrike79 »

erur wrote: post #263
watrami wrote: post #103

It seems like it's the same story everywhere I look. Housing is the main driver of inequality and there is little change happening. We have the same problem here in Germany. I am currently living in Munich to finish my CS Master's at TUM and build a startup, and it is absolutely impossible to find anything remotely affordable. I am supported by two startup scholarships and make enough to get by, but no landlord even…

It's definitely not every city in Germany that has this problem. You're trying to live in one of the objectively best parts of Germany by a lot of stats and thus you're competing with a lot of folks. I'm honestly sick of this whining about rent in top-tier areas. Living there is a luxury, given the major move to cities and scarcity, driven by insane regulations and basic logic. There are plenty of cities in Germany w…

> There are plenty of cities in Germany with very cheap rent, where apartment buildings get torn down because they're vacant.

There are plenty of cities in Finland like this too.

But the problem is that the jobs aren't there. I could buy a huge house with a big yard from one of those cities, but then my commute would be over 300km every day. Not really worth it.

Or I would have to quit my job and start working in the local paper factory or sawmill.

Re: What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide

#340

Post by jjav »

csomar wrote: post #229
nemo44x wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would it collapse? There’s insatiable demand for extreme limited property. Interest rate hikes may lower the price of property but the interest will rise proportionately. Do people really think at sone point no one will want premium property and I’ll finally get it cheap? Of course that will never happen.

If it doesn't collapse, then society may collapse? Like the sibling comment mentioned, you can only push this too far, and I think it's pushed too far to be very alarming. And housing is expensive by design and not by constraint. I'm staying in KL, a comparatively cheap place by Western standards. The housing market is crap here from a seller perspective as you have an over-supply of condos. That, despite the large a…

> If it doesn't collapse, then society may collapse?

But there are plenty very cheap areas to buy houses or rent. Sure, many people don't want to live there, that's why it's cheap today. But it is a possibility nonetheless, one that is better than collapsing society.

I'm always honestly confused why today it is seen as impossible to move to a cheap area? People have been doing this for generations (centuries?). It's never the most fun solution, but it is a solution.

When I was in my 20s I wanted to live in Manhattan more than anything in the world. But I was never able to make it happen, it was too crazy expensive even back then. Eventually I gave up on that dream and moved to a place that was cheap and was able to buy a house no problem. It's no Manhattan, but it is home and has been a good place to live for decades now. In hindsight it was a great decision to move away and buy a home in a cheap area instead of banging my head against the impossible real estate market of NYC.

It's always an option to move to a cheaper location!

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