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What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide

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Re: What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide

#221

Post by amrocha »

dangwhy wrote: post #175
amrocha wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't claim "wait times" as a positive of letting a bunch of people die or go bankrupt Quality is just not true

> You can't claim "wait times" as a positive of letting a bunch of people die or go bankrupt i already covered that under 'access' . If you have access then USA has much lower wait times. Its postive to the people who have access. Your implication that wait times are just natural consequence of more access is also not right. "Commonwealth Fund ranked Canada last among 11 countries surveyed on wait times for specialis…

Yes, Canada's system has problems. But any system that discriminates based on class is automatically worse.

Re: What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide

#222

Post by amelius »

simonsarris wrote: post #171
amelius wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Economists are part of the problem. When the rich are getting richer and the poor work their asses off and still get poorer, then just about any solution is better and the more decent thing to do than keeping disagreeing about what is the best solution.

this was basically the mentality that lead to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dekulakization it did not go well. It did not go well for either the richer (murdered) people or the poorer (ensuing famine) people: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_famine_of_1930%E2%80%93...

The goal is to make the system more fair, not eliminate one of the parties involved. Taking such an extreme position in an argument also doesn't help the situation.

Re: What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide

#223

Post by nemo44x »

baseline-shift wrote: post #213
nemo44x wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would it collapse? There’s insatiable demand for extreme limited property. Interest rate hikes may lower the price of property but the interest will rise proportionately. Do people really think at sone point no one will want premium property and I’ll finally get it cheap? Of course that will never happen.

In Japan, there are empty houses going cheap as old people die off. In a few decades, possibly there will be some effect as the de-population bomb from lowered birthrates globally begin to affect real estate prices. Let's hope.

Japan is unique for a few reasons:

1) Very insulated culture with nearly no immigration coupled with low birth rates.

2) They build houses very differently. They aren't generally made to last centuries if taken care of and renovated. The strategy is to build small units cheaply and tare down after 2- years. It's like Ikea for homes.

3) I agree, depopulation is a problem. We really need to incentivize middle and upper middle class people to have large families.

Re: What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide

#224

Post by amelius »

b112 wrote: post #148
amelius wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Economists are part of the problem. When the rich are getting richer and the poor work their asses off and still get poorer, then just about any solution is better and the more decent thing to do than keeping disagreeing about what is the best solution.

then just about any solution How can you make such a claim, when you look at the state of many regions/countries in the world?

11.6% of Americans live in poverty.

Re: What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide

#225

Post by amrocha »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #170
amrocha wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing mythological about Canadian healthcare. It's strictly better than the US's

Once you get to the top of the waiting list.

I don't even know what you're trying to say. The US system is to let poor people die and medium class people go bankrupt. There is no argument you can make that will redeem that. Yes, Canada's healthcare system has problems, but it's not fundamentally flawed.

Re: What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide

#226

Post by brewdad »

AmericanChopper wrote: post #206
pcthrowaway wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That could be addressed by making home building a priority and by relaxing regulations like zoning. Allow more infill. Unfortunately, it seems like incentives aren't aligned with the people responsible for zoning and regulation, for that to happen. Incumbent homeowners for whatever reason are better organized at mobilizing around their political interests

There’s another reason that local governments don’t embrace intensification, which is that they will be responsible for building the infrastructure to support it. Take a look at Jakarta where zoning laws focus heavily on intensification. Housing is cheap, but power cuts are normal, most of the city smells like sewage because you have sewage flowing into storm water infrastructure, the city regularly floods, and parts…

This is easily solved with impact fees. Builders pay a fee in my town of about $30,000 as part of the permit process for a single family home. That money goes towards the necessary infrastructure improvements.

Re: What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide

#227

Post by alephnerd »

Surprised no one on here mentioned estate taxes - Sweden repealed estate taxes in 2005 [0], and as such Sweden has one of the highest wealth (not income) Ginis in the world [1]. Other notable developed countries in the top of the wealth list are Netherlands (€1.3mil exemption from inheritance tax if planned correctly [2]) and the US (no inheritance tax below $12mil [3]). In essence, you are allowing the top 10% to gobble up all the value from the rest of society, and allowing old money to continue perpetuating itself.

[0] - https://taxsummaries.pwc.com/sweden/individual/other-taxes

[1] - https://www.credit-suisse.com/media/assets/corporate/docs/ab...

[2] - https://practiceguides.chambers.com/practice-guides/private-...

[3] - https://www.investopedia.com/estate-tax-exemption-2021-defin...

Re: What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide

#228

Post by throwaway22032 »

watrami wrote: post #103

It seems like it's the same story everywhere I look. Housing is the main driver of inequality and there is little change happening. We have the same problem here in Germany. I am currently living in Munich to finish my CS Master's at TUM and build a startup, and it is absolutely impossible to find anything remotely affordable. I am supported by two startup scholarships and make enough to get by, but no landlord even…

As a newcomer you can't live (properly) in a top tier city in any major Western country that I can think of unless you manage to accumulate significant wealth.

I doubt that "every" city in Germany has this problem, but I believe you that all of the ones that I could name as a non-German do.

The 50th percentile Brit can't afford to live in London. Nottingham, well that's easy.

It's the same everywhere.

Re: What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide

#229

Post by csomar »

nemo44x wrote: post #172
Bellend wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe we are in a time where everyone is milking the 90s-20s real estate bubble and no one wants to be first to fold. Internationally, not just on a per country basis. As soon as say, French real estate collapses (or UK or USA or Germany etc), the whole rotten castle of cards will fold as well. If it doesn't you can enjoy the expensive property, but you won't be eating farmed foods, won't be in a clean environmen…

Why would it collapse? There’s insatiable demand for extreme limited property. Interest rate hikes may lower the price of property but the interest will rise proportionately. Do people really think at sone point no one will want premium property and I’ll finally get it cheap? Of course that will never happen.

If it doesn't collapse, then society may collapse? Like the sibling comment mentioned, you can only push this too far, and I think it's pushed too far to be very alarming.

And housing is expensive by design and not by constraint. I'm staying in KL, a comparatively cheap place by Western standards. The housing market is crap here from a seller perspective as you have an over-supply of condos. That, despite the large amount of foreigners living here.

You can fix Western supply issue by allowing high-density condos nearby cities. Young people will prefer to live in these 20-sqm things (and have shared amenities/no car) than lose a significant percentage of their income to housing. Of course, some of the powers are holding on this because it'll affect their artificially made limited supply of houses.

Re: What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide

#230

Post by chrisco255 »

patall wrote: post #29

Not sure about the main story about the article. However, construction on that Ursvik/Rinkby construction site has been very slow since long before the current crisis. I was biking through the neighboring bridge of the one mentioned here (that is about 100m down the road, so much about that new bridge alone enabling crime) for about 8 month and while my way through changed a few times, progress was very slow. (Not th…

The Euro is also doomed. It might have saved Sweden a few months of pain at most.
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