Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

He who submits a resume has already lost

residentcontrarian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

181–190 of 225 posts

Re: He who submits a resume has already lost

#181

Post by sys_64738 »

stevekemp wrote: post #169
Yoric wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fun fact: I'm currently through an interview process that has lasted 11 weeks so far, including 12 discussions, 1 system design, 2 coding, 3 behavioral. The employer has informed me several times that they intend to make an offer and that my salary expectations are within their range... but they've been postponing the offer for 3 weeks now and clarified yesterday that they want me to profess that I'm more interested…

Friends tell me I'm losing out, but I never even apply to positions that do not include a salary (range). The idea of putting in hours, or days, of effort only to learn the salary is minimal just seems like waste of time for everyone. Weeks? That's just stringing you along, and by the point I'd wonder if they're even intending to hire anyone.

You are missing out though as putting job ads together isn't an exact science. You are looking for somebody with certain skills but often somebody with a lot of experience and a higher level comes along who would make an excellent addition to the team. In that case the hiring manager will redefine the role to accommodate the individual. It's happened to me so it's real.

Re: He who submits a resume has already lost

#182

Post by sys_64738 »

leipert wrote: post #20
andrewstuart wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This attitude is well suited to an employers market in which you need to profess your love for the job and company as part of your job application. A pity the market has turned back this direction. It’s usually accompanied by an employer “looking for someone who loves the opportunity enough to go through our 12 week, 9 interview, 1 whiteboard, 2 coding test process which usually ends in veto and ghosting”. Like telli…

I get your point. But when you go through hundreds of applications for a single role, the ones with a cover letter do stand out. Not that I would only hire if you had a cover letter, but it still stands out. One hand folks complain about automatic scanning and rejection based on just the CVs and here we are complaining about the one instrument, a job seeker has, to express interest in the company. To go with your dat…

If you get hundreds of applications then they're scanned into a database and ones with the buzzwords are deleted. A cover letter isn't even consumed by anybody other than the trash as the hiring manager isn't opening the mail. That doesn't happen anymore.

Re: He who submits a resume has already lost

#183

Post by lylejantzi3rd »

smsm42 wrote: post #26
looping__lui wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just some personal 2 Cents: I have hired quite a few people, interviewed many many and read countless CVs. In Tech, I really prefer 1 -2 pages tops in a short crisp CV; no extra text and weird sales pitch. Why? 1) Your actual experience, what you did, how your career progressed etc. matters most. That stuff goes beyond promises, wishes and dreams - but shows the sweat and tears. Github repo links etc: big plus 2) We…

> why people apply for a job or switch either. https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/2014-08-17

I'm tempted to use these answers this in my next job interview, just to see what happens.

Re: He who submits a resume has already lost

#184

Post by pjmlp »

Well, not everyone cares about passion and doing overtime outside work just to stand out for what is a labour per hour => money transaction.

So that leaves out resumes for the rest of us that actually have a life outside work.

Re: He who submits a resume has already lost

#185

Post by datavirtue »

Yoric wrote: post #177
fredsmith219 wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ghost them and move on. Why waste your time?

I'll probably send a thank you note rather than ghosting them outright, but this has become the plan as of yesterday.

One thing I have learned from Krav Maga, you don't act passive or submissive unless you are about to kick someone in the groin and smash them in the face.

Re: He who submits a resume has already lost

#186

Post by xtracto »

Yoric wrote: post #119
andrewstuart wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This attitude is well suited to an employers market in which you need to profess your love for the job and company as part of your job application. A pity the market has turned back this direction. It’s usually accompanied by an employer “looking for someone who loves the opportunity enough to go through our 12 week, 9 interview, 1 whiteboard, 2 coding test process which usually ends in veto and ghosting”. Like telli…

Fun fact: I'm currently through an interview process that has lasted 11 weeks so far, including 12 discussions, 1 system design, 2 coding, 3 behavioral. The employer has informed me several times that they intend to make an offer and that my salary expectations are within their range... but they've been postponing the offer for 3 weeks now and clarified yesterday that they want me to profess that I'm more interested…

As someone who has been in the other side of the table , I'm totally confident that they have another candidate and are dragging until they confirm their acceptance or rejection .

That, or there was 'something' that made them not pull the trigger with you, and they are waiting to interview more candidates.

I'll suggest to keep looking elsewhere,FAST, even if you get another shitty offer, you then can send them an "ultimatum" telling them about your other shitty offer.

You don't have to accept the other shitty offer.

Re: He who submits a resume has already lost

#187

Post by datavirtue »

barrysteve wrote: post #174
Ekaros wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I truly loved your vision or product or something or believed in it, I probably would start my own competition. If I want to invest in it why not go all in. But I don't. So it is a transaction and you are one in hundreds of options I have over years. And you should also treat it like that.

Why would you believe in a company? It's not God or your wife.

This. I have been in enough family businesses and startups to know that there is nothing to believe in. Upper management just thinks you're adorable. Middleanagemwnt thinks you need to eat shit, like them.

Re: He who submits a resume has already lost

#188

Post by datavirtue »

ht_th wrote: post #106
ajsnigrutin wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, especially since the answer the the first question ("1. Why do you want to take this role?") is usually: "you have work to do, and have the money, I can do the work, and want the money"

True, but among the organizations that have work and money you can do to get the money, some seem to have aims or products or work in domains that align better with your views on the world than other organizations. In the context of job-getting, money as an extrinsic motivator is a given. Parts of a candidate's motivation that are more towards intrinsic might be relevant.

Yeah, and all of those have a .org on their domain.

I saw a recent interview with the director of the world food bank. So jealous.

Re: He who submits a resume has already lost

#189

Post by drewcoo »

heleninboodler wrote: post #97
r_hoods_ghost wrote: post #72

Let's be honest, the alternative to having an open hiring process, i.e. resumes, is nepotism and hiring your chums and the chums of your contacts. Which does describe the hiring process in a lot of startups. Ethical issues aside, the problem with this is that it shrinks the pool of potential hires down drastically, to people who look like you, think like you, and know roughly the same things as you. Great if your cus…

But let's also be honest: startup founders aren't hiring "their chums" out of some unethical sense of helping their friends who don't deserve it, they're hiring people they know and who they have good reason to believe are going to help them succeed. The fact that their chums tend to be people who look like them and think like them is an unfortunate side effect of this, but the idea of getting candidates via networki…

> But let's also be honest

I don't think that is being honest.

> aren't hiring "their chums" out of some unethical sense of helping their friends who don't deserve it, they're hiring people they know and who they have good reason to believe are going to help them succeed

No one says "I'm going to unethically help people who don't deserve it," so let's discard that part.

They're cheating at the normal hiring practice, not allowing other candidates in, because they think it gives them some sort of advantage. And that doesn't look entirely ethical.

It's only deemed "business unethical" if someone can prove discrimination in court, though. And that's honest.

Re: He who submits a resume has already lost

#190

Post by Yoric »

xtracto wrote: post #186
Yoric wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fun fact: I'm currently through an interview process that has lasted 11 weeks so far, including 12 discussions, 1 system design, 2 coding, 3 behavioral. The employer has informed me several times that they intend to make an offer and that my salary expectations are within their range... but they've been postponing the offer for 3 weeks now and clarified yesterday that they want me to profess that I'm more interested…

As someone who has been in the other side of the table , I'm totally confident that they have another candidate and are dragging until they confirm their acceptance or rejection . That, or there was 'something' that made them not pull the trigger with you, and they are waiting to interview more candidates. I'll suggest to keep looking elsewhere,FAST, even if you get another shitty offer, you then can send them an "ul…

Actually, they know that I have other offers pending. But thanks for the insight, it makes absolute sense.
Post reply on HN