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He who submits a resume has already lost

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Re: He who submits a resume has already lost

#51

Post by gymbeaux »

leipert wrote: post #20
andrewstuart wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This attitude is well suited to an employers market in which you need to profess your love for the job and company as part of your job application. A pity the market has turned back this direction. It’s usually accompanied by an employer “looking for someone who loves the opportunity enough to go through our 12 week, 9 interview, 1 whiteboard, 2 coding test process which usually ends in veto and ghosting”. Like telli…

I get your point. But when you go through hundreds of applications for a single role, the ones with a cover letter do stand out. Not that I would only hire if you had a cover letter, but it still stands out. One hand folks complain about automatic scanning and rejection based on just the CVs and here we are complaining about the one instrument, a job seeker has, to express interest in the company. To go with your dat…

I never made the connection before, but yes online dating apps are a LOT like interviewing for software jobs. In both cases, I am/was "rejected" a lot, but in both cases, wherever/whoever I ended up with, was very happy with me. I think most likely the conclusion to be drawn is that humans suck at evaluating other humans.

Re: He who submits a resume has already lost

#52

Post by bjornsing »

cornholio wrote: post #28
jensneuse wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand where you're coming from, but see it differently. This really is a filter. We don't want job applications from people who are looking for a job. We're looking for people who actually want to do work at WunderGraph. We're the first to build a Backend for Frontend Framework, unifying the ideas of API Gateway, BFF and package manager. Our long term goal is to build the GitHub for APIs, a collaborative platf…

> We don't want job applications from people who are looking for a job. We're looking for people who actually want to do work > We're not offering you a job. We offer you the opportunity This gem right here sums up what an employers market means. Every employer thinks they are special and wants an employee who's entire life's journey was only a preparation for the singular great moment of meeting you and building you…

> But guess what: you are not special, you are just a workplace and you compete in the marketplace for talent just like everybody else. For economic reasons that have nothing to do with you, you have more negotiating power for a limited time. That is all.

I think it’s perfectly legitimate to not want to hire people with this attitude. Just a few people with this attitude can completely ruin an early stage company.

And the same goes in the other direction: I don’t want to work for anybody who sees me as a commodity they’ve bought in a market. I’m sorry, but I am special: there is only one of me on this planet.

Re: He who submits a resume has already lost

#53

Post by musicale »

smsm42 wrote: post #32
jensneuse wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand where you're coming from, but see it differently. This really is a filter. We don't want job applications from people who are looking for a job. We're looking for people who actually want to do work at WunderGraph. We're the first to build a Backend for Frontend Framework, unifying the ideas of API Gateway, BFF and package manager. Our long term goal is to build the GitHub for APIs, a collaborative platf…

> We're not offering you a job. We offer you the opportunity to work together with a smart bunch of people on a very hard problem. So does nearly everybody else. I was never told by a recruiter they are looking for somebody to work on mind-numbingly simple things in the company of idiots.

> they are looking for somebody to work on mind-numbingly simple things in the company of idiots

That isn't always an inaccurate description.

Re: He who submits a resume has already lost

#54

Post by gymbeaux »

chocolatkey wrote: post #17
jensneuse wrote: post #7

I keep giving this advice on how to significantly increase your chances of getting to the interview stage. Most candidates really only submit a resume. The chances of getting to the interview stage with this approach are almost zero. Because everyone does this, you can easily stand out. Simply answer the following 2 questions briefly in plain English. 1. Why do you want to take this role? 2. Why are you a good fit fo…

As a jaded interviewer (and interviewee) in tech, I will say this works great if you have, for example, a face-to-face meeting and you can demonstrate your interest/passion for the role, but in cover letters or similar email exchanges, you already have people spitting out those fake statements, and it's tedious to distinguish the genuine interest from the fake "I am interested in because you and believe I am a perfec…

There has to be a better way. I really think TripleByte was on to something. No other profession has such a convoluted interviewing system. Imagine if doctors were expected to perform surgeries in X minutes in order to prove they were qualified for the job? Imagine if a lawyer had to prove they graduated from law school by defending a random felon in a court setting.

No other profession in existence expects candidates to dance on command the way we are expected to. Why do I have to prove over and over and over and over again that I can solve fizz-buzz or some other, similar brain teaser whose solution I more or less memorized. Why can't employers look at the plethora of code-related stuff with my name attacked to it that's out there on the Internet, ask me a few questions, and conclude that yep, he in fact knows what he is doing and probably did in fact work at these places he has listed on his resume.

Re: He who submits a resume has already lost

#55

Post by musicale »

jacobriis wrote: post #24
jensneuse wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand where you're coming from, but see it differently. This really is a filter. We don't want job applications from people who are looking for a job. We're looking for people who actually want to do work at WunderGraph. We're the first to build a Backend for Frontend Framework, unifying the ideas of API Gateway, BFF and package manager. Our long term goal is to build the GitHub for APIs, a collaborative platf…

Couldn’t tell if this is satire. Love it.

The era of AI-written recruitment pitches has begun.

Re: He who submits a resume has already lost

#57

Post by gymbeaux »

jensneuse wrote: post #22
datatrashfire wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ChatGpt I need a cover letter for a startup. Here is the plaintext contents of their website...

In the interview, we'll ask in the first minutes what's your opinion of what we do. ChatGPT will not get you that far. After all, what's the point of faking interest? Eventually you'll never really get the job. All you do is waste everybody's time.

Sure it will, but even if it doesn't, it's less time I have to spend writing a cover letter.

Re: He who submits a resume has already lost

#58

Post by camgunz »

gymbeaux wrote: post #51
leipert wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get your point. But when you go through hundreds of applications for a single role, the ones with a cover letter do stand out. Not that I would only hire if you had a cover letter, but it still stands out. One hand folks complain about automatic scanning and rejection based on just the CVs and here we are complaining about the one instrument, a job seeker has, to express interest in the company. To go with your dat…

I never made the connection before, but yes online dating apps are a LOT like interviewing for software jobs. In both cases, I am/was "rejected" a lot, but in both cases, wherever/whoever I ended up with, was very happy with me. I think most likely the conclusion to be drawn is that humans suck at evaluating other humans.

> I think most likely the conclusion to be drawn is that humans suck at evaluating other humans.

In these circumstances definitely. It's a tall ask to accurately evaluate someone romantically or professionally based on a profile/resume and a few hours of face time. I think unions have a good method of doing this actually: people no one wants to work with wash out.

Re: He who submits a resume has already lost

#59

Post by layer8 »

jensneuse wrote: post #7

I keep giving this advice on how to significantly increase your chances of getting to the interview stage. Most candidates really only submit a resume. The chances of getting to the interview stage with this approach are almost zero. Because everyone does this, you can easily stand out. Simply answer the following 2 questions briefly in plain English. 1. Why do you want to take this role? 2. Why are you a good fit fo…

> are truly inspired by your vision.

That sounds about as genuine as it is grammatically correct.

Re: He who submits a resume has already lost

#60

Post by iopq »

jacobqe wrote: post #6

> That leaves a field of 40 more-or-less qualified people who have at this point all committed a significant amount of time doing unpaid labor for a company to manage the company’s risk and hiring costs. Ahh yes, the "significant amount of time doing unpaid labor" of sending my resume via email, which took me all of 5 minutes.

My dad's friend emailed over 400 companies looking for a job. The response rate is atrocious
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