Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

He who submits a resume has already lost

residentcontrarian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 225 posts

Re: He who submits a resume has already lost

#31

Post by collaborative »

looping__lui wrote: post #23
jensneuse wrote: post #7

I keep giving this advice on how to significantly increase your chances of getting to the interview stage. Most candidates really only submit a resume. The chances of getting to the interview stage with this approach are almost zero. Because everyone does this, you can easily stand out. Simply answer the following 2 questions briefly in plain English. 1. Why do you want to take this role? 2. Why are you a good fit fo…

Just some personal 2 Cents: I have hired quite a few people, interviewed many many and read countless CVs. In Tech, I really prefer 1 -2 pages tops in a short crisp CV; no extra text and weird sales pitch. Why? 1) Your actual experience, what you did, how your career progressed etc. matters most. That stuff goes beyond promises, wishes and dreams - but shows the sweat and tears. Github repo links etc: big plus 2) We…

That's because you're smart enough to look for key information and make assumptioms

Most HR people prefer the 5-page, write-down-everything-you-have-done resume. I know because I have tried both routes and because of the feedback I got I have ended up maintaining 2 versions (long and short)

Re: He who submits a resume has already lost

#32

Post by smsm42 »

jensneuse wrote: post #21
andrewstuart wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This attitude is well suited to an employers market in which you need to profess your love for the job and company as part of your job application. A pity the market has turned back this direction. It’s usually accompanied by an employer “looking for someone who loves the opportunity enough to go through our 12 week, 9 interview, 1 whiteboard, 2 coding test process which usually ends in veto and ghosting”. Like telli…

I understand where you're coming from, but see it differently. This really is a filter. We don't want job applications from people who are looking for a job. We're looking for people who actually want to do work at WunderGraph. We're the first to build a Backend for Frontend Framework, unifying the ideas of API Gateway, BFF and package manager. Our long term goal is to build the GitHub for APIs, a collaborative platf…

> We're not offering you a job. We offer you the opportunity to work together with a smart bunch of people on a very hard problem.

So does nearly everybody else. I was never told by a recruiter they are looking for somebody to work on mind-numbingly simple things in the company of idiots.

Re: He who submits a resume has already lost

#33

Post by collaborative »

jensneuse wrote: post #22
datatrashfire wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ChatGpt I need a cover letter for a startup. Here is the plaintext contents of their website...

In the interview, we'll ask in the first minutes what's your opinion of what we do. ChatGPT will not get you that far. After all, what's the point of faking interest? Eventually you'll never really get the job. All you do is waste everybody's time.

Yeah if the interview ever comes there'll be plenty of time to actually be interested

Re: He who submits a resume has already lost

#34

Post by antonvs »

andrewstuart wrote: post #5

Overly generalized rant. Sure some jobs happen outside the resume submission system, but most of the employment market works via resume submission. There’s no value in reading this post.

Aside from which, the post is just very misguided. The author seems to believe that writing a resume involves “committing a significant amount of time doing unpaid labor for a company to manage the company’s risk and hiring costs.” You could say the same thing about an interview. It just makes no sense.

The post also claims that a hypothetical “golden curriculum vitae” literally created by angels would not “increase your chances of getting hired at all.” This seems completely oblivious to the actual role resumes play in the hiring process. There’s no question that a good resume can make an applicant stand out, and predispose interviewers to favor a candidate.

The reason the author gives for his strange belief is:

> The employer is very, very clear in terms of everything they do that they don’t trust your resume even a little and give it exactly zero weight - else they wouldn’t waste manager time interviewing you to get you to rehash it.

But I’ve never been in an interview, on either side, which involved a “rehash” of the resume. Resumes and interviews serve different, complementary purposes.

Re: He who submits a resume has already lost

#35

Post by UncleEntity »

jensneuse wrote: post #22
datatrashfire wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ChatGpt I need a cover letter for a startup. Here is the plaintext contents of their website...

In the interview, we'll ask in the first minutes what's your opinion of what we do. ChatGPT will not get you that far. After all, what's the point of faking interest? Eventually you'll never really get the job. All you do is waste everybody's time.

> In the interview, we'll ask in the first minutes what's your opinion of what we do.

You pay people for their labor. Most people view that favorably. The ones who don’t you probably don’t want to hire.

Requiring people to join your cult seems a bit much imho.

Re: He who submits a resume has already lost

#36

Post by smsm42 »

andrewstuart wrote: post #10
jensneuse wrote: post #7

I keep giving this advice on how to significantly increase your chances of getting to the interview stage. Most candidates really only submit a resume. The chances of getting to the interview stage with this approach are almost zero. Because everyone does this, you can easily stand out. Simply answer the following 2 questions briefly in plain English. 1. Why do you want to take this role? 2. Why are you a good fit fo…

This attitude is well suited to an employers market in which you need to profess your love for the job and company as part of your job application. A pity the market has turned back this direction. It’s usually accompanied by an employer “looking for someone who loves the opportunity enough to go through our 12 week, 9 interview, 1 whiteboard, 2 coding test process which usually ends in veto and ghosting”. Like telli…

Not a bad analogy btw. Love at the first sight is very rare. What you could expect is a certain amount of interest - which could develop if all goes well. But expecting people to be madly in love with your company after reading a website is a bit megalomanic - or just selecting for people who are really good at faking.

Re: He who submits a resume has already lost

#37

Post by deebosong »

jensneuse wrote: post #21
andrewstuart wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This attitude is well suited to an employers market in which you need to profess your love for the job and company as part of your job application. A pity the market has turned back this direction. It’s usually accompanied by an employer “looking for someone who loves the opportunity enough to go through our 12 week, 9 interview, 1 whiteboard, 2 coding test process which usually ends in veto and ghosting”. Like telli…

I understand where you're coming from, but see it differently. This really is a filter. We don't want job applications from people who are looking for a job. We're looking for people who actually want to do work at WunderGraph. We're the first to build a Backend for Frontend Framework, unifying the ideas of API Gateway, BFF and package manager. Our long term goal is to build the GitHub for APIs, a collaborative platf…

I'm not in your field, but I read it as such from the get-go and I thought, "Yeah I know what this person is talking about – basically, not seeking someone who lays it on too thick about being in love with the company (or even the specific software/ work), but someone who reads the job description, and is fairly assured they are very capable of doing the work, and wants to do the work because it's interesting to them."

It didn't sound to me like you're asking someone to be a zealot, sycophant, brown-noser, or some kinda corporate drone who drinks the kool-aid and wears the company swag. But maybe I'm misreading?

I say this because I'm fairly niche in my skillset for animation and design, and I only really reach out to studios/ agencies for this very specific skillset, and will turn down jobs (or refer others who might be a better fit) where it's better suited for a generalist or outside of my range. Like, I like doing work within my niche, but it's not my everything or even my core identity.

Doesn't sound like you're asking potential candidates to profess their undying devotion and pile on gratitude. That's just my take. Felt like people might have been reading your comments in a slightly exaggerated interpretation and it could use some other perspectives.

Re: He who submits a resume has already lost

#38

Post by onion2k »

As awful as the resume process is it has one advantage that the author seems to have ignored - it's 'fair'. It puts everyone in basically the same footing at the start of the hiring process.

Using a system based on recommendations would give popular, attractive, well-connected people an advantage that's unrelated to their skill level. It would make job hopping more beneficial because you'd get to meet and connect with more people.

Maybe it's unreasonable of me, but I slightly suspect the author would prefer recommendation based hiring because it'd benefit them rather than because it'd be a better system for everyone.

Re: He who submits a resume has already lost

#39

Post by AmericanChopper »

Simon_O_Rourke wrote: post #16

I know some very underqualified poor performers who also appear to be excellent networkers. I have yet to see them however, get promotions internally based on networking alone.

Trying to get internally promoted is a losing strategy. If you’re trying to develop your career, then all you want is for your next role to be better (and probably pay more) than your last role. Exclusively looking inside your current organisation for that next role is simply limiting your options to some tiny subset of all the potentially good options on the market.

You just want to turn yourself into a good candidate for that next role, you shouldn’t care where you find it. Even if you’re successful at getting internally promoted, there’s a good chance you’re going to accomplish those goals slower than if you’d just looked elsewhere.

Re: He who submits a resume has already lost

#40

Post by onion2k »

jensneuse wrote: post #22
datatrashfire wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ChatGpt I need a cover letter for a startup. Here is the plaintext contents of their website...

In the interview, we'll ask in the first minutes what's your opinion of what we do. ChatGPT will not get you that far. After all, what's the point of faking interest? Eventually you'll never really get the job. All you do is waste everybody's time.

If a candidate has written plaintext summary of your website they've probably done more research than a lot of other candidates who apply.
Post reply on HN