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CDC team studying East Palestine train derailment fell ill during investigation

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Re: CDC team studying East Palestine train derailment fell ill during investigation

#111

Post by shadowgovt »

throw_m239339 wrote: post #97
shadowgovt wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does the CDC have to gain by downplaying the seriousness of this disaster?

> What does the CDC have to gain by downplaying the seriousness of this disaster? Don't you remember what happened to 9/11 workers who then died of specific forms of cancer? The US government fully knew that working there was dangerous for their health due to the toxic dust. What executive working at the CDC now will still be there in 15 years? That won't be their problem...

9/11 was an unprecedented event; nobody had been exposed to that level of powdered modern-constructed building before in the US. Not in those population numbers.

Vinyl chloride exposure risk, in contrast, is pretty well understood; we've been working with it for over 100 years (and crashing trainloads of it for about that long).

I agree the EPA (not CDC) made errors after 9/11, but they were working with a novel threat.

Re: CDC team studying East Palestine train derailment fell ill during investigation

#112

Post by renewiltord »

shadowgovt wrote: post #91
junofan wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The CDC is full of shit. It’s not complicated.

What does the CDC have to gain by downplaying the seriousness of this disaster?

Maybe they did it so that it would be easier to remove medical and CDC personnel from the area.

After all, protecting these people was the justification the public health administration used to say "masks don't work".

You have to be a total sucker to believe they're optimizing for your subpopulation. They're the #1 Greater Good Team.

If admitting they got sick would reduce faith in the government and that would be bad For The Greater Good, they would just lie.

Re: CDC team studying East Palestine train derailment fell ill during investigation

#113

Post by shadowgovt »

hedora wrote: post #106
shadowgovt wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does the CDC have to gain by downplaying the seriousness of this disaster?

Immediately before this accident, the rail workers were striking over inadequate safety rules. Multiple trains derailed in East Palistine. Netflix even filmed a documentary about it there. Knowing all that, both parties sided with the railways and voted to force the rail workers back to work. Post accident, audio recordings of a railway supervisor ordering safety inspectors to ignore safety issues were released. Pois…

... except CDC scientists have a reputation independent of the political machine. They have more to lose being branded liars than to gain toeing party lines.

Re: CDC team studying East Palestine train derailment fell ill during investigation

#114

Post by shadowgovt »

renewiltord wrote: post #112
shadowgovt wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does the CDC have to gain by downplaying the seriousness of this disaster?

Maybe they did it so that it would be easier to remove medical and CDC personnel from the area. After all, protecting these people was the justification the public health administration used to say "masks don't work". You have to be a total sucker to believe they're optimizing for your subpopulation. They're the #1 Greater Good Team. If admitting they got sick would reduce faith in the government and that would be ba…

The CDC didn't say masks don't work. They did say cloth masks weren't as effective as N95s.

Re: CDC team studying East Palestine train derailment fell ill during investigation

#115

Post by shadowgovt »

StrangeATractor wrote: post #94
cwkoss wrote: post #88

I'm really worried about the effects on the food supply chain. The plume of chemical vapors covered a significant proportion this country's breadbasket. Corn, wheat and soybean fields got sprinkled with carcinogens, they will be harvested, turned into flours and processed derivatives, and could end up in practically any processed food on grocery store shelves. Does anyone have a reassuring reason why I shouldn't be w…

Relax, unless the grains were grown next door and you got that batch of corn or flour you'll be fine. Otherwise it's going to be very diluted. There are tons of carcinogens around, East Palestine is the least of your worries unless you live near there. (I have zero scientific background)

You may have zero scientific background, but your rule of thumb numbers are quite correct.

By simple volume, people have more to be concerned about from the plastic vapors left over from the packaging and shipping processes for the food they're buying from the grocery store then the risk of vinyl chloride contamination from the East Palestine spill.

Re: CDC team studying East Palestine train derailment fell ill during investigation

#116

Post by shadowgovt »

ummonk wrote: post #79

It’s possible there is a benign explanation (spring is allergy season after all), but it’s insane that the government hasn’t been erring in the side of caution throughout this incident.

I wouldn't call it "insane." The temporary evacuation was erring on the side of caution. Vinyl chloride and the other materials on the train are extremely well-understood chemicals and denature pretty rapidly in the wild (especially if you expose them to a controlled burn).

Re: CDC team studying East Palestine train derailment fell ill during investigation

#117

Post by zaroth »

shadowgovt wrote: post #113
hedora wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Immediately before this accident, the rail workers were striking over inadequate safety rules. Multiple trains derailed in East Palistine. Netflix even filmed a documentary about it there. Knowing all that, both parties sided with the railways and voted to force the rail workers back to work. Post accident, audio recordings of a railway supervisor ordering safety inspectors to ignore safety issues were released. Pois…

... except CDC scientists have a reputation independent of the political machine. They have more to lose being branded liars than to gain toeing party lines.

It’s a little late to start caring about lying now…

Re: CDC team studying East Palestine train derailment fell ill during investigation

#118

Post by junofan »

shadowgovt wrote: post #110
StanislavPetrov wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Loss of government credibility for telling people that they were in no danger while clouds of toxins were visible overhead? If there is one thing you can out on, it is that government agencies will always circle the wagons to cover up malfeasance and/or incompetence.

That's exactly why, if anything, the CDC is incentivized to overstate the risk. Credibility is their stock in trade.

They’re incentivized to focus on interagency bullshit and little else.

Re: CDC team studying East Palestine train derailment fell ill during investigation

#120

Post by [deleted] »

cwkoss wrote: post #88

I'm really worried about the effects on the food supply chain. The plume of chemical vapors covered a significant proportion this country's breadbasket. Corn, wheat and soybean fields got sprinkled with carcinogens, they will be harvested, turned into flours and processed derivatives, and could end up in practically any processed food on grocery store shelves. Does anyone have a reassuring reason why I shouldn't be w…

[deleted]
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