He who submits a resume has already lost • Hacker News Board

Re: He who submits a resume has already lost

#11

Post by datatrashfire » Sat, Apr 01, 2023, 6:26 AM UTC

jensneuse wrote: post #7

I keep giving this advice on how to significantly increase your chances of getting to the interview stage. Most candidates really only submit a resume. The chances of getting to the interview stage with this approach are almost zero. Because everyone does this, you can easily stand out. Simply answer the following 2 questions briefly in plain English. 1. Why do you want to take this role? 2. Why are you a good fit fo…

ChatGpt I need a cover letter for a startup. Here is the plaintext contents of their website...

Re: He who submits a resume has already lost

#12

Post by tjpnz » Sat, Apr 01, 2023, 6:27 AM UTC

Yes having someone vouch for you means a lot less BS - that's obvious. But you're still going to have to present a resume, and assuming you want the job you must take that part seriously.

Re: He who submits a resume has already lost

#13

Post by elihu » Sat, Apr 01, 2023, 6:38 AM UTC

andrewstuart wrote: post #5

Overly generalized rant. Sure some jobs happen outside the resume submission system, but most of the employment market works via resume submission. There’s no value in reading this post.

Thinking back on my life, I can't remember a single example where I ever got a job just by submitting a resume. Either I already knew someone in the organization or otherwise had a relationship with it to begin with (e.g. I got a summer grounds job at a University because I was already a student there), or I met someone at an event who was looking for people to hire.

Re: He who submits a resume has already lost

#14

Post by namdnay » Sat, Apr 01, 2023, 6:39 AM UTC

jacobqe wrote: post #6

> That leaves a field of 40 more-or-less qualified people who have at this point all committed a significant amount of time doing unpaid labor for a company to manage the company’s risk and hiring costs. Ahh yes, the "significant amount of time doing unpaid labor" of sending my resume via email, which took me all of 5 minutes.

> significant amount of time doing unpaid labor for a company

That’s such a strange way to look at it… if a company advertises, are they doing “unpaid labour to help me manage my purchasing”?

Re: He who submits a resume has already lost

#15

Post by leipert » Sat, Apr 01, 2023, 6:39 AM UTC

> A group of 50 applicants submit resumes for a job. 10 or so of them are delusional, and get cut.

I think the author never worked in hiring for an org that got a lot of applicants. When I was a hiring manager, we sometimes opened reqs and got hundreds of applications within the first one or two days.

Re: He who submits a resume has already lost

#16

Post by Simon_O_Rourke » Sat, Apr 01, 2023, 6:42 AM UTC

I know some very underqualified poor performers who also appear to be excellent networkers. I have yet to see them however, get promotions internally based on networking alone.

Re: He who submits a resume has already lost

#17

Post by chocolatkey » Sat, Apr 01, 2023, 6:43 AM UTC

jensneuse wrote: post #7

I keep giving this advice on how to significantly increase your chances of getting to the interview stage. Most candidates really only submit a resume. The chances of getting to the interview stage with this approach are almost zero. Because everyone does this, you can easily stand out. Simply answer the following 2 questions briefly in plain English. 1. Why do you want to take this role? 2. Why are you a good fit fo…

As a jaded interviewer (and interviewee) in tech, I will say this works great if you have, for example, a face-to-face meeting and you can demonstrate your interest/passion for the role, but in cover letters or similar email exchanges, you already have people spitting out those fake statements, and it's tedious to distinguish the genuine interest from the fake "I am interested in because you and believe I am a perfect fit for this job!", especially when you factor in non-native speakers and trying to distinguish between suspicious template text and not-so-great English skills. OP's post example #1 actually highlights how you can make that template text. The amount of application gaming you have to filter out is insane sometimes.

Re: He who submits a resume has already lost

#18

Post by carabiner » Sat, Apr 01, 2023, 6:44 AM UTC

elihu wrote: post #13

andrewstuart wrote: post #5

Overly generalized rant. Sure some jobs happen outside the resume submission system, but most of the employment market works via resume submission. There’s no value in reading this post.

Thinking back on my life, I can't remember a single example where I ever got a job just by submitting a resume. Either I already knew someone in the organization or otherwise had a relationship with it to begin with (e.g. I got a summer grounds job at a University because I was already a student there), or I met someone at an event who was looking for people to hire.

I've gotten all of my offers from cold applications. Didn't know anyone, just submitted an app through the ATS and got an email that led to an interview then to an offer

Re: He who submits a resume has already lost

#19

Post by IshKebab » Sat, Apr 01, 2023, 6:45 AM UTC

elihu wrote: post #13

andrewstuart wrote: post #5

Overly generalized rant. Sure some jobs happen outside the resume submission system, but most of the employment market works via resume submission. There’s no value in reading this post.

Thinking back on my life, I can't remember a single example where I ever got a job just by submitting a resume. Either I already knew someone in the organization or otherwise had a relationship with it to begin with (e.g. I got a summer grounds job at a University because I was already a student there), or I met someone at an event who was looking for people to hire.

Except my most recent job where I used a recruiter, I've only got jobs by submitting a CV. One was a huge company with an official application process (Dyson) and the other two were startups via email.

You definitely have higher odds with a more nepotistic route, but I think he's still right - most jobs go to applicants that apply using the standard process.

Re: He who submits a resume has already lost

#20

Post by leipert » Sat, Apr 01, 2023, 6:46 AM UTC

andrewstuart wrote: post #10

jensneuse wrote: post #7

I keep giving this advice on how to significantly increase your chances of getting to the interview stage. Most candidates really only submit a resume. The chances of getting to the interview stage with this approach are almost zero. Because everyone does this, you can easily stand out. Simply answer the following 2 questions briefly in plain English. 1. Why do you want to take this role? 2. Why are you a good fit fo…

This attitude is well suited to an employers market in which you need to profess your love for the job and company as part of your job application. A pity the market has turned back this direction. It’s usually accompanied by an employer “looking for someone who loves the opportunity enough to go through our 12 week, 9 interview, 1 whiteboard, 2 coding test process which usually ends in veto and ghosting”. Like telli…

I get your point. But when you go through hundreds of applications for a single role, the ones with a cover letter do stand out. Not that I would only hire if you had a cover letter, but it still stands out.

One hand folks complain about automatic scanning and rejection based on just the CVs and here we are complaining about the one instrument, a job seeker has, to express interest in the company.

To go with your date analogy, a cover letter might not need to be a love declaration, but maybe a message that looked at the other’s profile rather than just “what’s up”.