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Why Americans Care About Work So Much

theatlantic.com

11–20 of 68 posts

Re: Why Americans Care About Work So Much

#11
post #7

On the potential downsides of WFH triggering a drawback from workism: If community means “where you keep showing up,” then, for many people, the office is all that’s left. What happens when it goes the way of bowling leagues and weekly church attendance? Bowling leagues, churches, meditation centers, hiking groups, tabletop game gatherings, music festivals, etc are alive and well! Becoming isolated from remote work,…

Plenty of us still go to church every week!

Re: Why Americans Care About Work So Much

#12
post #8

I really want to quit but then who's going to pay for my wife's pregnancy? Healthcare and mandatory expenses can destroy one's life in America.

> I really want to quit but then who's going to pay for my wife's pregnancy? Solution: don’t have kids. You already knew this beforehand.

The solution is well known throughout the rest of the developed world: a public healthcare system.

Re: Why Americans Care About Work So Much

#13
post #5
post #3

Well with the savagely frayed state of the social safety net if you're not born rich, basically if you can't find work in California you're unlikely to get food stamps especially if you are able bodied and healthy otherwise than having the illness of having been born in the US past the date of 1965.

> especially if you are able bodied and healthy if you're abled bodied, and healthy, why should society bear a burden of giving you resources to live off long term? To exist means to locate the resources to live (such as food, shelter, etc). These resources can no longer be foraged like in the days of old, and thus, the allocation of these resources must come from a mechanism we call market and employment today. A so…

>> A social safety net is required, but only in so far as the time it takes to get yourself another job

Or the time it takes to rehabilitate somebody with a fairly severe musculoskeletal disorder, especially when they’ve otherwise had $100k of various scholarship money invested in them.

However, absolutely nothing like that exists, ask how I know.

Re: Why Americans Care About Work So Much

#14
post #7

On the potential downsides of WFH triggering a drawback from workism: If community means “where you keep showing up,” then, for many people, the office is all that’s left. What happens when it goes the way of bowling leagues and weekly church attendance? Bowling leagues, churches, meditation centers, hiking groups, tabletop game gatherings, music festivals, etc are alive and well! Becoming isolated from remote work,…

Yeah that was a strange claim. My local village paper (distributed for free on actual paper and supported by hyperlocal advertising) is full of volunteer groups, church news, the local football club, yoga lessons, pub meet ups.

> > "What happens when it goes the way of bowling leagues [...]

Reading it now I notice the local bowls club is having a "no experience needed" free coaching day in a few weeks, I might have to go! It's crown green bowling though, probably not what Americans think of as bowling. https://duckduckgo.com/?q=crown+green+bowling&t=ffab&iar=ima...

Re: Why Americans Care About Work So Much

#16
post #8

I really want to quit but then who's going to pay for my wife's pregnancy? Healthcare and mandatory expenses can destroy one's life in America.

> I really want to quit but then who's going to pay for my wife's pregnancy? Solution: don’t have kids. You already knew this beforehand.

You went to the effort of creating a new account just so you could be that snarky and flippant?

Hope you have a better weekend than this and that you maybe spend some time working on yourself.

Re: Why Americans Care About Work So Much

#17
I very much agree with the author's thesis here. I think there is a kind of derangement especially among SV types about making every job about rescuing the world. And I think it comes from exactly this place of the human need for spirituality which is currently starved. But I had to screech the breaks for a second at this conjecture.

> Their work was a matter of subsistence and necessity; it was not a race for status or an existential search for meaning.

As far as I can tell, this cannot be farther from the truth. Pre-industrial people explicitly found existential meaning in their labor.

Their culture, religion and traditions enveloped every aspect of life. Their spiritual frameworks provided direction on everything like how to milk a cow, how to prepare meals, whom to marry and how to raise children.

Milking a cow and raising a child were responsibilities conveyed by a celestial benefactor. The proper execution of both paid praise and showed thankfulness to that benefactor. In this way labor was suffused with meaning.

Humans lost this for sure. This is partly why labor strife was so intense during the industrial era. People were not just stripped of their standard of living but also of a huge part of their ability to structure the world around them. Without a labor environment suffused with meaning they became desperate. It took their agency and dignity. The Luddites for example were driven more by disdain for the subservience the factory system creates than by a fear of total displacement.

This kind of modernist/progressive thinking towards history is probably the worst thing people take away from high school and undergrad history courses. It's so misleading and it creates this psychic barrier that most people never break down.

Re: Why Americans Care About Work So Much

#18
Human sociality was, in our evolutionary environment, built on reciprocity. Tribes were complex webs of interdependence and mutual aid. The closest to that today is inside firms, where transactions are not mediated through markets but instead depend on relationships, personal favours, power hierarchies etc.

It's hardly surprising that work plays an increasingly central role in everyone's lives when the alternatives are ersatz forms of sociality where people who share no common interest whatsoever get together under the pretence of 'having fun'. Anecdotally a lot of people I know who lived through long lockdowns realised that they didn't really miss having to make small-talk with strangers at parties. It might look like lockdowns greatly impaired their social life, but their social life was mostly a chore anyway. The weekend life of meeting people for drinks or hobbies etc. is failing not because people don't put in enough effort, but because that's not how humans bond, and they've in fact put in a lot of effort in an approach which hasn't paid dividends.

Re: Why Americans Care About Work So Much

#19
Regardless of how people feel about work, no government agency should ever aim for job creation as a goal. The irony of modern life is that it's often people who don't need to work who enjoy work the most... The game is fun to them mostly because it's rigged in their favor. On the other side, when the game is rigged against you, it's hard to think of anything worse. If I could get the same salary as I do now to literally stare at a wall and watch paint dry, I would do it and I'm not even joking. At least that would free up my my mind to wander, plan, reflect - Something which I'm desperate to do more of but don't have the time; can't afford it.

I'm 100% sure that I hate working in the current economy because the best time in my life was when I didn't have to work for 2 years, even though I was earning very little (just enough for basic needs). There's nothing better than having nothing to do and being able to choose what to do. Watching paint dry is second place, working is the worst.

Re: Why Americans Care About Work So Much

#20
post #7

On the potential downsides of WFH triggering a drawback from workism: If community means “where you keep showing up,” then, for many people, the office is all that’s left. What happens when it goes the way of bowling leagues and weekly church attendance? Bowling leagues, churches, meditation centers, hiking groups, tabletop game gatherings, music festivals, etc are alive and well! Becoming isolated from remote work,…

Plenty of us still go to church every week!

What do I do if I want to "go back" to church but I don't believe? Speaking personally, and without spilling a few paragraphs of text here, it seems like that's where I am today.
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