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Where have all the laid-off tech workers gone?

economist.com

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Re: Where have all the laid-off tech workers gone?

#301

Post by gtop3 »

supernova87a wrote: post #16

Side question, is the 3-4 months of severance pay cushioning a bit the impact to whatever micro-economy laid off workers would otherwise be affecting? We're not yet seeing the potentially worse effects yet until severance runs out? But I would hope that most laid off workers are able to find jobs in that time frame.

> https://layoffs.fyi/

There's 120k US layoffs documented here in 2023, or 0.07% of the US workforce. We could imagine the ~50% reemployment rate for FANG is a fair estimate for the rest of the tech layoffs (fang employees might be easier to be rehired, but might have more savings and be less inclined to return). So 0.035% of the workforce would potentially be running out of severance.

It probably will have an impact. This alone isn't a crisis level event. It's hard to determine regional data for the laid off workers because of WFH, but we could imagine tech heavy regions receiving a bigger share of the impact than national averages. The impact is probably more spread than it would have been if the layoffs happened in 2019.

Re: Where have all the laid-off tech workers gone?

#302

Post by AndrewKemendo »

mattgreenrocks wrote: post #274
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #233

This whole debacle really made it clear that there is no way to be an ethical success in capitalism at the highest levels (CEO, Board, C-Suite generally, SVP). It is literally impossible to be a public company CEO or senior manager for that matter, which is the goal of most founders in this sphere, and not be slavishly devoted to maximizing profit margin at all costs and irrespective of anything else. Why? You'll be…

> This whole debacle really made it clear that there is no way to be an ethical success in capitalism at the highest levels (CEO, Board, C-Suite generally, SVP). Relevant quote: > Paul Tillich wrote that all institutions, including the church, are inherently demonic. Reinhold Niebuhr asserted that no institution could ever achieve the morality of the individual. Institutions, he warned, to extend their lives when con…

Yeah I think part of the challenge is keeping things very distributed and not centralizing outside of the core management of the structure only.

So for example, structurally I think we can nudge the organization such that any of our individual seegull "communities" can stay smaller than about 200 co-owner/operators/employees. That is to say perhaps each has their own specific bylaws (like states) treasury etc...IDK how to make it last 1000 years I'm just hoping for 100

Re: Where have all the laid-off tech workers gone?

#303

Post by KptMarchewa »

pcthrowaway wrote: post #234
KptMarchewa wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Waiting 2-3 months to see if new job is a good fit is usually a smart move.

I don't know if people are still doing the /r/overemployed thing, but I imagine you aren't in a hurry to change it if you are. It's also possible that the recently-laid off are settling for lower salaries but more employers to make up for it

I guess now managers would be way less willing to accept underperformance though... and more picky on recruitment.

Re: Where have all the laid-off tech workers gone?

#304

Post by [deleted] »

feoren wrote: post #299
ikiris wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This just shows how dumb it is to require specific knowledge of products of clearly qualified people.

100% agreed that it's dumb to require extremely specific knowledge of one product, and 100% disagree that a Googler is "clearly qualified" simply because they came from Google. I have absolutely no idea why we've all just accepted the narrative that any FAANG employee is automatically better than the rest of us, despite evidence that FAANGs are nothing more than code mills optimizing for exploitable ambition over act…

[deleted]

Re: Where have all the laid-off tech workers gone?

#305

Post by jesse__ »

colonelpopcorn wrote: post #76
Eisenstein wrote: post #75

> John Deere, an American tractor-maker, has been snapping up fired tech workers to help it make smarter farm machinery. Oh yay. Who wants to work for a company that is actively antagonistic against its own customer base?

The same people that wanted to work for Meta and Amazon?

HAHAHAHAHAHA

The accuracy of this statement just tickles me

Re: Where have all the laid-off tech workers gone?

#306

Post by feoren »

maximinus_thrax wrote: post #162
esskay wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you expecting a salary similar to the one you were getting at a FAANG though? Because that seems to be the main issue - FAANG people thinking they're worth way more than they actually are.

> FAANG people thinking they're worth way more than they actually are. I find your tone concerning, considering there's something driving wages down (which if you're a wage worker should make you squirm regardless of how much you make). I feel some resentment against fellow workers (because it doesn't matter how much you make, if you MUST work to live, you're a worker), but it doesn't matter. Wages aren't tied to wor…

Honestly after living under the pervasive narrative that you're a failure of a software developer unless you work for either a FAANG or a unicorn SV startup, I'm not sad to see arrogant FAANG developers get cut down to size a little and learn they're not actually God's gifts to the discipline. For over a decade, it's been automatically assumed that everyone else was a failure who just "couldn't cut it" at a FAANG.

> Wages aren't tied to worth

Of course they are. Nothing in the history of humanity has ever been more clearly tied to "this number means how much worth you have as a human being" as income in the United States does today; a close 2nd being the number of serfs you had in medieval France. There's literally an income below which people will cheer for you dying in the streets if you get sick. Yes, they cheer. They cheered when Ron Paul suggested letting poor people die in the streets when they get sick. Being poor is becoming illegal. They'll throw you in jail for it. They add spikes to the sides of highways to make life even more miserable for the homeless. Of course your income is tied to your worth as a human being. What world are you living in?

Re: Where have all the laid-off tech workers gone?

#307

Post by zhivota »

wonder_er wrote: post #281
bradlys wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's just a popular place for remote people. The usual white digital nomad bro who goes there to sleep around. (Plenty of women doing this too btw) It's a nice spot but it's just for fucking around in your 20's. (Or 30's if you live an alternative lifestyle or are a terrible romantic partner)

'just' feels slightly de-dignifying, but overall this is not totally wrong. I'd say there's a lot more to do there than sleep around, but there seemed to be plenty of that. (I'm white-passing, have done the nomad thing in the past, didn't go to sleep around, don't consider myself to be a terrible romantic partner, but am recently divorced, so you shouldn't take only my word on that). I'm nearly autistic when it comes…

Interesting, I've gotten very interested in land use recently and had not heard this about Indonesia. Are you talking specifically about Bali here? Because I've been to Jakarta and I can't say I endorse the land use there based on the few business trips I've taken.

Where can I read more about what you're talking about?

Re: Where have all the laid-off tech workers gone?

#308

Post by makerdiety »

moonchrome wrote: post #279
than3 wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its actually not that unexpected, a big contributor is inflation. If you've any experience with Argentina, or other hyper-inflationary events, there comes a point where your labor is more valuable to you than what others are willing to pay you for. When the store of value is degrading rapidly, and wages in general always lag, those with options will do something else. Most companies I know simply are unwilling to adj…

We are talking about people making above >150k/year here right ? At no point does 10-20% inflation mean they are better off growing their own food or some shit like that. Your point is probably applicable in less developed economies/low paid positions. For highly specialized well paid positions if this was the case you'd probably have a societal collapse.

Actually, increasing rates of inflation do mean people are better off sustaining themselves and leaving the credit based economy that has a rising inflation rate with its credit based currency. The weak buying power of an individual currency unit, like a United States dollar, indicates a geopolitical state and economy that is beginning to lack the ability to sustain further revenue increases in a generalized shareholder account of wealth. And middle class or bourgeois laborers are those general shareholders in the hypothetical credit based economy and state I'm talking about here. Basically, a credit bubble is naturally popping to combat real overpopulation and making a lot of money (like a billion dollars, actually) here might actually be a fool's game. So investing in outside assets, relative to the indicated failing state and the credit based assets its domestic production offers its domestic shareholders, is the rational move to make in this theoretical game.

So the question now is: what can we do and invest in as part of our survival motivated escape from the failing society?

Re: Where have all the laid-off tech workers gone?

#309

Post by nostrademons »

em500 wrote: post #104
pklausler wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't anybody jump ship for a better job, though?

Sure, but an ex-FAANGer probably has a better shot at actually getting hired at another FAANG (when the job market improves) than someone who's only worked at no-name shops or local governments.

The implied logic behind that is "I know my company is a worse option than many of the other ones out there, so I'm going to only hire people who those other companies would not do business with." It's inherently a low self-esteem attitude.

People leave, sometimes suddenly and without warning. The high self-esteem way to deal with it is to do your best to provide an attractive working environment, accept that some people will leave, and try to learn from each departure. That way you have the option of profiting from the talented employee who totally could make more at a FAANG but happens to like your company because you provide good management, a worthwhile purpose, or the actual ability to write code rather than deal with company politics.

Re: Where have all the laid-off tech workers gone?

#310

Post by fatnoah »

Eumenes wrote: post #33
Beaver117 wrote: post #13

I can't find another job even with a FAANG background. The market is brutal. Maybe my only choice is to start a startup.

The biggest reason I've seen FAANG candidates (mostly Google, FB, and Amazon) get rejected is too much experience with proprietary technology, esp. if they've been there a long time, like 5+ years. I've even spoke to some FAANG candidates who think their internal proprietary tech is widely known or commercial products.

I spent a long, long time in startups before moving to larger companies, and eventually a FAANG. The folks I worked with at the FAANG were incredibly smart, motivated, and collaborative, but a huge percentage of them had no experience outside of the FAANG. They were able to use the in-house systems for build, deploy, data storage, etc. but had never actually had to design and/or build or even think too much about how such things work. It's a great luxury that lets them focus on the product they're building vs. foundational infra, but it's a huge detriment when looking to go outside of those things.

It's ironic, because the System Design interview is a major delineator between lower and higher level Engineers when they interview at these companies, yet many of the tenured people would do very poorly because many of the questions and considerations of the problems presented in such interviews are effectively solved problems in their daily work that they've never had to think about.

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