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Tax Season: Why I loathe paying taxes since moving to CA from the UK

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21–30 of 90 posts

Re: Tax Season: Why I loathe paying taxes since moving to CA from the UK

#21
>We need the basics that deliver true equality, as I experienced growing up in the UK: free healthcare, good public schools, and good public transport. Maybe even ban the private options like they banned

To be fair.

You picked California. Chicago , NYC, DC and I'm sure one or two other American cities have functioning public transportation.

The other two issues will never ever be fixed. Tbh if your quality of life was so much better in the UK why'd give that up ?

Re: Tax Season: Why I loathe paying taxes since moving to CA from the UK

#22
post #13

Americans are so dominated psychologically by elite propaganda that they fail to realize that America has this unique tax return torture system designed to extort fees from the people that go to the tax return industrial complex and a portion of that money gets paid back is kickbacks and bribes and fees or whatever to the Congress people that Ensure that the Byzantine tax system never goes away and only gets more com…

I see that the tax return industrial complex Shills are downvoting my post

Re: Tax Season: Why I loathe paying taxes since moving to CA from the UK

#23
post #9
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you read the blog I actually explain that. However for middle class tech workers in CA, I can assure you they are

Even if I take you at face value and say you paid an effective tax rate of 43.92% on an income of USD 650k+ (or USD 279.5k+ which I still contend nobody does, unless you do some kind of shady math including all your property taxes and sales taxes and all kinds of nonsense), can you really say with a straight face that people making USD 650k+ a year, year after year are part of the middle class? Who is in the upper cl…

The upper class doesn't work - it owns. Maybe some top executives of global corporations can be considered upper class, but usually most of their wealth comes from ownership of stock.

Re: Tax Season: Why I loathe paying taxes since moving to CA from the UK

#24
post #9
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you read the blog I actually explain that. However for middle class tech workers in CA, I can assure you they are

Even if I take you at face value and say you paid an effective tax rate of 43.92% on an income of USD 650k+ (or USD 279.5k+ which I still contend nobody does, unless you do some kind of shady math including all your property taxes and sales taxes and all kinds of nonsense), can you really say with a straight face that people making USD 650k+ a year, year after year are part of the middle class? Who is in the upper cl…

Instead of worrying about middle vs upper etc consider these things:

- that is all income and it really is taxed at the rates described, it is crushing the amount of tax I/we pay as wage earners

- CA (where those salaries exist) is really expensive, like $4500/mo for daycare, so despite having a high income it feels no higher than somebody making half as much elsewhere - the truely wealthy derive their cash flow from investments which are taxed at half as much, or own businesses and deduct expenses to effecting 0%

So the effect is if you have high income you are inescapably taxed very high (and are ineligible for almost all govt inventories) resulting in an effectively much lower cash flow, meanwhile the wealthy have a lower effective tax burden for the same or higher standard of living.

Re: Tax Season: Why I loathe paying taxes since moving to CA from the UK

#25

>We need the basics that deliver true equality, as I experienced growing up in the UK: free healthcare, good public schools, and good public transport. Maybe even ban the private options like they banned To be fair. You picked California. Chicago , NYC, DC and I'm sure one or two other American cities have functioning public transportation. The other two issues will never ever be fixed. Tbh if your quality of life wa…

Having lived in SF, London, Berlin, and now DC, I can tell you that DC's is totally subpar in comparison to any I encountered in Europe. Not only in the year that I've been there have there been multiple shootings on the subway in that time but I can't remember a single instance where I didn't see someone hopping the turnstile and the trains are quite slow (in terms of number of trains per hour).

Re: Tax Season: Why I loathe paying taxes since moving to CA from the UK

#26
post #22
post #13

Americans are so dominated psychologically by elite propaganda that they fail to realize that America has this unique tax return torture system designed to extort fees from the people that go to the tax return industrial complex and a portion of that money gets paid back is kickbacks and bribes and fees or whatever to the Congress people that Ensure that the Byzantine tax system never goes away and only gets more com…

I see that the tax return industrial complex Shills are downvoting my post

I downvoted you, and I don't necessarily disagree with your premise, but it's also tangential to the topic at hand.

Re: Tax Season: Why I loathe paying taxes since moving to CA from the UK

#27
I have sympathy with the premise but unfortunately quotes like this completely undermine the reliability of the analysis:

World-class public transport, never needed a car in London

The idea that UK public transport is world class is absurd.

The author is doing extreme cherry picking by referring to the entirely unrepresentative London transport infrastructure and service.

Try living in a rural area or many urban areas, especially in the north, and talk about "world class" public transport to people there.

Re: Tax Season: Why I loathe paying taxes since moving to CA from the UK

#28
post #11

Great idea to compare "what you pay" vs "what you get" between countries. I'd love to see further analysis downstream: How much revenue per capita each country collects, and how it's allocated. (IIRC, the conventional wisdom is that wealthy Americans are good at legally avoiding taxes, and a disproportionate amount of America's tax money goes to an outsized military and a cost-ineffective healthcare system.)

Thanks, I did actually start work on getting that data but as the blog was already very long, and it would take hours to find and analyse the data, I decided against it. Maybe a future blog!

Re: Tax Season: Why I loathe paying taxes since moving to CA from the UK

#29
post #8

California may be high tax for high income people, but for most middle and low income folks, it is actually pretty cheap. CA's top marginal income tax rate is actually a temporary provision which may or may not be extended when it expires, depending on who the voters elect. > driving away the 1% of households that pay 50% of the taxes in California, worsening the situation for everyone. One big problem is that over t…

Thanks for the comment. I wasn't aware of that point on the high top marginal tax rate, I can only comment that it's been in place for a long time (since I moved here) and I don't get any sense personally that it will be expired when California is constantly looking for ways to increase taxes. Re. healthcare, from past people I've hired and let go and friends who've been unemployed, perhaps as they're all in tech wit…

> And there are penalties for withdrawing before 59.5years, which I would call the "retirement age" on these plans.

Sort of, but in practice not really if you're smart about it and plan a bit in advance.

If you want to retire early and access 401(k) or traditional IRA funds, you can do so without incurring additional taxes or penalties. The strategy is called a "Roth conversion ladder". It takes advantage of the fact that you can always withdraw Roth principal (not investment returns) before any retirement age penalty-free (as long as those funds have been in the Roth for at least five years).

The general outline is that you roll over some of your 401(k) or IRA funds into a Roth IRA every year. This causes those funds to be taxed as regular income tax, but your income is almost certainly going to be dramatically lower than during your earning years, putting you in a much lower tax bracket. This entire amount that was rolled over is now considered principal, and in five years you can use it penalty-free per the Roth rules. Every year you roll over what you expect to need in five years. Once you bridge that first five years (perhaps with preexisting Roth funds), you now have a recurring source of income through your Roth.

Yes, this is some additional complication and requires some planning. But it's not particularly onerous. GP is right that you're likely making a pretty big mistake, paying 40%–50% tax rates (on the marginal top end of your income) in order to avoid some restrictions that are—in most cases—pretty easily bypassed. That's not to say there aren't some very legitimate reasons for keeping money in accounts that don't come with restrictions, but paying 40%—50% in taxes for that privilege makes those situations comparatively rare.

I will absolutely agree that the fact that you need to know these sorts of "tricks" is one of many indefensible parts of our retirement system. And of course, there's always the risk of the rules changing out from under you. But cases where that actually happens in a way that causes significant impact are uncommon in practice.

Re: Tax Season: Why I loathe paying taxes since moving to CA from the UK

#30
As a Brit this article is laughable. People are literally dying in the UK because so called wonderful 'free' public healthcare doesn't have the ambulances to send to them. Tons of potholes everywhere too. Outside London and major cities, public transport is non-existent to very poor.
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