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GM plans to phase out Apple CarPlay in EVs, with Google's help

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Re: GM plans to phase out Apple CarPlay in EVs, with Google's help

#211
post #65
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only that but wireless CarPlay. I recently picked up a '23 RAV4 and I didn't think it would matter but the difference is noticeable. At least in this model it's connected before I'm even out of my garage.

I don’t understand why this can’t be an OTA update? Maybe with slightly less functionality but why can’t it just Bluetooth CarPlay?

As others have said, it uses WiFi (set up via Bluetooth).

Bluetooth doesn't support the data rates necessary to deliver the data for CarPlay. As for the "maybe with slightly less functionality" would you take no display? You're basically talking about Siri Eyes Free where you'd have a button to activate Siri on your steering wheel, but wouldn't get much functionality. But I'm guessing you want the navigation to be displayed on your screen, not just a bluetooth audio connection with a Siri button.

Basically, the 1-2Mbps of Bluetooth really isn't enough to drive a display with any decent resolution and I'm guessing that real-world data rates are a bit less than spec with so much stuff in the 2.4GHz band. Microsoft notes that you need 1.5Mbps for 1024x768 and I'm guessing most car displays are better than that today (https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-server/remote/remo...).

Maybe you'd argue that you'd take 5 FPS and semi-reliability, but I just don't think they want to implement something that's just kinda crappy. Apple doesn't want you going around saying, "wireless CarPlay is garbage." Yes, you might understand a retrofit to a car that doesn't really have the capability, but 99% of people won't. It's not that it's impossible as much as something likely to be way more pain than it's worth. Even if you want it and would be ok with the trade-off, that's not always how products work. Heck, if they did implement it and it didn't work, would you end up using tech support for it? That costs money. Would you post online where your problem-solving becomes interpreted as "Apple sucks" even if you don't mean it that way?

Worse, car manufactures might (and car dealers definitely would) start promising these models as supporting wireless CarPlay. Maybe Apple could deal with official marketing materials, but dealers will say almost anything to sell a car. People would be duped into buying these cars and then complain to Apple that their product sucks. People would be asking online "is this real wireless CarPlay or the fake kind?" The absolute headache!

You can buy an adapter that will plug into the USB port if you want wireless CarPlay: https://9to5mac.com/2023/02/27/carplay-wireless-carplay-adap.... Basically, the information goes from your phone to the adapter (via Bluetooth-setup-WiFi) and then the adapter just sends it over USB. That's way less headache for Apple and probably a better experience since it actually supports the right data rates. I haven't used one of these so you should read up if you want to buy one (or try it out and return it if it doesn't work for you), but this seems like a much better alternative than trying to jam CarPlay over Bluetooth (without WiFi).

Re: GM plans to phase out Apple CarPlay in EVs, with Google's help

#212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GM will absolutely lose this battle. They will, but not by standing firm. No, first will come the backlash, then GM will "listen to its customers" and backtrack on this. The problem is, I've already as of this morning stopped listening to GM. I sent the link to my wife, and now we're planning which Hyundai/Kia dealer to go to first to look at Ioniq 5s and $(whatever the equivalent Kia is called). Doug in Edmonds says…

Make sure you get a Hyundai/Kia with an immobilizer...

All Hyundai/Kia EVs are push to start.

Re: GM plans to phase out Apple CarPlay in EVs, with Google's help

#213

Well this sucks. I bought a Chevy Blazer last year, and it’s the best car I’ve ever owned. Great balance of design, gas mileage, comfort, etc. I was definitely planning to make my next car the EV version of this. Part of that package is flawless CarPlay integration. It’s simplified the music and navigation experience more than I ever thought possible. The only reason I wouldn’t demand it on my next car is if somethin…

I think the data collection part is a surmise from the author.

I mean, GM did gather the listening habits of 90,000 "volunteers".

https://boingboing.net/2018/10/23/dont-touch-that-dial.html

Re: GM plans to phase out Apple CarPlay in EVs, with Google's help

#214

GM is probably ignoring that these products exist too. I haven't bought one, but I've been tempted to put one in my 2008 Civic. I'm sure they'll be even better and cheaper in a couple years. https://www.ebay.com/itm/204267444756?hash=item2f8f49da14:g:...

This is cool! I only wish it hooked into the car speakers.

It does - it connects over AUX or BT.

Re: GM plans to phase out Apple CarPlay in EVs, with Google's help

#215

GM is probably ignoring that these products exist too. I haven't bought one, but I've been tempted to put one in my 2008 Civic. I'm sure they'll be even better and cheaper in a couple years. https://www.ebay.com/itm/204267444756?hash=item2f8f49da14:g:...

This is cool! I only wish it hooked into the car speakers.

That's the neat part, they have aux out. ;)

Re: GM plans to phase out Apple CarPlay in EVs, with Google's help

#216
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

problem is (from GM's perspective), with CarPlay, Apple takes over the UX of the car...the Apple logo is the first and last thing people see when driving GM doesn't want Apple or Google taking over the UX of the car, because then GM is eventually just another FoxConn and sure, there's a money thing...they want revshare from Spotify and every other app they can position in the UI CarPlay and Android Auto will be gone…

> the Apple logo is the first and last thing people see when driving This isn’t how it works in my Dodge. There is a Dodge logo / startup screen first, then a “don’t use screen while driving sign that I am forced to accept every time ” and then it shows me CarPlay.

Same as my current circa-2017 GM car, which shows a home screen with buttons or blank screen with the time. There is no Apple OR GM logo.

Re: GM plans to phase out Apple CarPlay in EVs, with Google's help

#217

Well this sucks. I bought a Chevy Blazer last year, and it’s the best car I’ve ever owned. Great balance of design, gas mileage, comfort, etc. I was definitely planning to make my next car the EV version of this. Part of that package is flawless CarPlay integration. It’s simplified the music and navigation experience more than I ever thought possible. The only reason I wouldn’t demand it on my next car is if somethin…

> if something demonstrably and overwhelmingly better came along.

I'm pretty sure that is what GM's play is here. There's a lot of confusion. They are moving to Google Automotive Services, complete with Android and the Play store where you pick what is on your car. Apple music is one of those apps.

> Subscription services tied to my car and not my phone?

Data Subscription, it is Google play under it all.

> Needing to maintain navigation routes on my car AND my phone?

Google Maps is on both and would likely work as well.

> Being forced to use only built in apps like Spotify instead of “whatever is on my phone that supports car play”? Google Play, how you get apps in next-gen GM Android Automotive would have the same apps.

It works exactly like having a Mac/PC and a phone.

Re: GM plans to phase out Apple CarPlay in EVs, with Google's help

#219
post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it’s that dominant I wonder if there needs to be some anti-trust action done with Apple?

On what grounds? Because people like it too much? Apple isn’t forcing anything. They don’t have exclusive contacts. Almost every car with CarPlay supports Android Auto. Customers are just demanding it.

Apple does restrict access to much of their platform for only Apple-based access. There's exactly one company stopping Google or anyone else from building a compatible car system that runs for both Android and ios, and that's Apple. The use of private APIs and preventing competitors from using them, to secure another market (car infotainment systems) certainly should run afoul of anticompetitive laws in spirit, even if it doesn't to the army of lobbyists and lawyers the most valuable company in the world can muster.

By comparison, nothing (not even Google) is stopping Apple from producing CarPlay for Android. All the APIs are there. They could even distribute it in the Play store.

Compare the PhoneLink capabilities between iPhone and Android, vs the macOS integration Apple offers iOS.

Re: GM plans to phase out Apple CarPlay in EVs, with Google's help

#220
post #83

Do you have to have a Google account to use the car?

Actually... sorta. The new infotainment system ("Google Built-In") basically dictates you have to use it or you don't get to use all the features as they were intended.

To get an idea of what to expect, see Volvo's GBI page - https://www.volvocars.com/intl/v/connectivity/infotainment-p...

"You can still drive the car and use Google Assistant and Google Maps without a Google Account. However, if you’re offline or signed out, some apps and features may not be available. Google Play requires a logged in Google Account whereas Google Assistant and Google Maps will not be as personalised in the signed-out experience."

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