Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Meta wants EU users to apply for permission to opt out of data collection

arstechnica.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

181–190 of 241 posts

Re: Meta wants EU users to apply for permission to opt out of data collection

#181

Post by cm2012 »

In a world where Meta uses user cookies to run targeted advertising: Users see ads they're interested in, and experience no other downsides from that targeting.

In a world where Meta doesn't use cookies to run targeted advertising: Users see lowest common denominator boring ads. None of their life is different in any other way, there's no harm they avoided.

This whole issue is baseless. If the EU wants to purposefully degrade services that half of EU citizens use every day, that's their prerogative, but you're making the world slightly worse.

Re: Meta wants EU users to apply for permission to opt out of data collection

#182

Post by NayamAmarshe »

duud wrote: post #109
NayamAmarshe wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I totally understand your point. I had to be the stubborn one to leave WhatsApp and refuse any communication unless they contact me on Telegram. Some didn't like it at first, but thankfully most of them now love Telegram. I have a “My way or the highway” kinda attitude when it comes to WhatsApp, it has certainly caused problems once or twice, but I'm very firm on my stance against Facebook apps.

How is Telegram more privacy preserving than WhatsApp?

Because it is, if you read about it.

Their track record is excellent. Pavel moved away from Russia (and his team of 20 something members too!) only because the Russian government pressured them into giving access to their servers.

WhatsApp is anything but privacy preserving. You have 0 transparency. You can't even prove if the E2EE exists for 100% of the time or just 50% of the time because the binaries are obfuscated. On top of that, their privacy policy and being owned by Facebook says everything one needs to know.

Telegram, IMHO, is the only app that does not compromise on user experience and still provides fantastic privacy control and respects the user data. Sure, it's not E2EE, but no E2EE app can ever do what Telegram is doing at this scale.

Re: Meta wants EU users to apply for permission to opt out of data collection

#183

Post by amanaplanacanal »

bilekas wrote: post #148
pibechorro wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no right to privacy, you either have it, or you don't. You either stay inside or go out, dress or stay nude, play with data collecting company products or dont. You may build a whole elaborate burocrazy to keep your "rights" intact, but they will corrupt and be captured by financial interest as it always does over a large enough timeline and all you will have is the illusion of privacy accompanied by the inc…

In the EU it is a human right. > The right to privacy or private life is enshrined in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights https://edps.europa.eu/data-protection/data-protection_en#:~... . The violations of these are not the responsibility of the victim. In this case they are the responsibility of Meta. You seem to be talking about it more in line with if it was a privilege and not a right. Consider a passport,…

The right to travel freely feels as much a natural right as any, if we are going down that path. In reality the only rights you have are what you are willing to fight for (and win!), or run away to another jurisdiction for. Natural rights are a fiction to make us feel better.

Re: Meta wants EU users to apply for permission to opt out of data collection

#184

Post by yjftsjthsd-h »

favsq wrote: post #120
Nextgrid wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counterpoint: I do not use any of their services when browsing non-Facebook websites, yet most sites still attempt to load FB tracking scripts.

You should configure your browser properly so it doesn't contact 3rd parties while you are browsing.

Notice that they said

> yet most sites still attempt to load FB tracking scripts.

(Emphasis mine)

So yes, they do, and all that's irrelevant victim blaming because it's really unacceptable that this is something the user should have to bother with. It also requires an unusually high level of technical competence just to not get stalked, which is likewise unreasonable.

Re: Meta wants EU users to apply for permission to opt out of data collection

#185

Post by jmorenoamor »

cm2012 wrote: post #181

In a world where Meta uses user cookies to run targeted advertising: Users see ads they're interested in, and experience no other downsides from that targeting. In a world where Meta doesn't use cookies to run targeted advertising: Users see lowest common denominator boring ads. None of their life is different in any other way, there's no harm they avoided. This whole issue is baseless. If the EU wants to purposefull…

No I'm not.

I don't want targeted ads. I'm not interested in anything they have to offer. I will search for things I think I need by myself when I think I need then.

Re: Meta wants EU users to apply for permission to opt out of data collection

#186

Post by black_puppydog »

jacquesm wrote: post #84

Meta is way out of line. There is absolutely no way that the EU is going to allow Meta to break the law at scale without regulators throwing a fit. They might even get to be made into an example of what happens when you repeatedly try to knowingly break the law.

> when you repeatedly try to knowingly break the law

IANAL but I'd add "blatantly", "brazenly" or some such here. This cannot be in line with things like "it must be as easy to opt out as to opt in" (paraphrasing GDPR) and they know it.

IMHO this (like, sadly, many examples before from Meta) could be a perfect occasion to pierce the corporate veil. Whoever signed off on this should never be left in charge of customer data again.

Re: Meta wants EU users to apply for permission to opt out of data collection

#187

Post by polishdude20 »

bilekas wrote: post #12

This is still a bit insane to me. If I understand correct, you have to fill a form with a justification why you object, and then Meta will decide if you can be removed from the detailed data collection ? Privacy is a basic human right, and the strawman argument of "Well don't just use their services then" is ridiculous with their influence. Also them touting to "connected the world" When in reality is "connecting to…

You connecting to the world also means the world connects to you.

Re: Meta wants EU users to apply for permission to opt out of data collection

#188

Post by ggregoire »

baynoob wrote: post #99

I see a lot of comments where they prefer telegram over WhatsApp. Surprising part is whatsapp is end to end encrypted by default for all conversations but telegram is not.

I'd add that WhatsApp is mandatory in some parts of the world. Where I live it's probably installed on 99.9% of the phones. All your family, friends, coworkers and customers are on WhatsApp. You want to book a haircut? They will confirm the appointment on WhatsApp. You want to get a quote for anything? They will send the file to you on WhatsApp. You want to know what was your covid vaccine number? The only way is to ask to a bot on WhatsApp. This is actually insane.

Re: Meta wants EU users to apply for permission to opt out of data collection

#189

Post by yjftsjthsd-h »

cm2012 wrote: post #181

In a world where Meta uses user cookies to run targeted advertising: Users see ads they're interested in, and experience no other downsides from that targeting. In a world where Meta doesn't use cookies to run targeted advertising: Users see lowest common denominator boring ads. None of their life is different in any other way, there's no harm they avoided. This whole issue is baseless. If the EU wants to purposefull…

> In a world where Meta uses user cookies to run targeted advertising: Users see ads they're interested in, and experience no other downsides from that targeting.

So your argument is that you don't believe privacy has any value, and you only care about second-order effects. First: Since you believe that, can I install a camera in your shower? Don't worry, you won't experience any downsides. Second: Users would do in fact experience downsides, because targeted ads exist to get them to spend more money and distort their selection (i.e. if I'm shopping for cameras, I want the best/cheapest camera, not the one that paid the most to get shoved in my face).

Re: Meta wants EU users to apply for permission to opt out of data collection

#190

Post by Supernaut »

closewith wrote: post #133
pessimizer wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just rationalizing FOMO. Of course you don't know the things you don't know.

Yes, I continue to use WhatsApp because I have fear of missing out. Missing out on conversations from my extended family, friends (only about 1/4 use Signal and all groups are on WhatsApp), work (the Health Service in Ireland literally runs on WhatsApp), voluntary undertakings (all of which are organised on WhatsApp), organising stuff for the kids (again all on WhatsApp). So it's a valid fear based on the reality in…

> the Health Service in Ireland literally runs on WhatsApp

What do you mean? I live in Ireland and no health professional has ever contacted me via WhatsApp.

Post reply on HN