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Meta wants EU users to apply for permission to opt out of data collection

arstechnica.com

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Re: Meta wants EU users to apply for permission to opt out of data collection

#141

Post by nicoburns »

redeeman wrote: post #89
jacquesm wrote: post #84

Meta is way out of line. There is absolutely no way that the EU is going to allow Meta to break the law at scale without regulators throwing a fit. They might even get to be made into an example of what happens when you repeatedly try to knowingly break the law.

[flagged]

> meta knows that they are far far more popular in the population than politicians, and politicians know that if they were to effectively stop facebook, the blowback would be immediate.

I'm not convinced that's true. I think most people quite dislike Facebook these days. And I know hardly anyone (of any age demographic) who uses it regularly. Popular opinion on Instagram is less negative but declining. People do still use WhatsApp and Facebook messenger, but I don't think switching would be seen as a big deal if these were banned (just like everyone suddenly installed Zoom in 2020). The only reason they have sticking power is because of network effects.

Re: Meta wants EU users to apply for permission to opt out of data collection

#142

Post by isanjay112 »

jen20 wrote: post #140
isanjay112 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> strawman argument of "Well don't just use their services then" is ridiculous with their influence I do not use any of facebook's apps or websites But from what I can see from DuckDuckGo App tracking protection multiple apps load Facebook trackers. Basically there is no escaping facebook even if you don't touch any of their apps.

Pi Hole or a similar DNS sink is a reasonable improvement, though obviously not a complete solution.

Yes I use Adguard Home.

But how many are tech savy enough to have a separate device and run Aguard / Pi Hole all the time for privacy.

Re: Meta wants EU users to apply for permission to opt out of data collection

#143

Post by Xelbair »

gman83 wrote: post #22
bilekas wrote: post #12

This is still a bit insane to me. If I understand correct, you have to fill a form with a justification why you object, and then Meta will decide if you can be removed from the detailed data collection ? Privacy is a basic human right, and the strawman argument of "Well don't just use their services then" is ridiculous with their influence. Also them touting to "connected the world" When in reality is "connecting to…

In terms of Facebook where I live, "Well don't just use their services then" is simply impossible. Almost all of my kids' sports activities and parent groups are on WhatsApp, I have to use it.

it doesn't matter if you have account or not - you are still tracked and they still create a shadow profile for you.

Re: Meta wants EU users to apply for permission to opt out of data collection

#144

Post by pibechorro »

bilekas wrote: post #12

This is still a bit insane to me. If I understand correct, you have to fill a form with a justification why you object, and then Meta will decide if you can be removed from the detailed data collection ? Privacy is a basic human right, and the strawman argument of "Well don't just use their services then" is ridiculous with their influence. Also them touting to "connected the world" When in reality is "connecting to…

There is no right to privacy, you either have it, or you don't. You either stay inside or go out, dress or stay nude, play with data collecting company products or dont. You may build a whole elaborate burocrazy to keep your "rights" intact, but they will corrupt and be captured by financial interest as it always does over a large enough timeline and all you will have is the illusion of privacy accompanied by the incompetence of the machination proping it up, at large expense.

If you want privacy, seek it out, refuse those that take it from you. Incuding Meta.

Re: Meta wants EU users to apply for permission to opt out of data collection

#145

Post by Broken_Hippo »

pibechorro wrote: post #144
bilekas wrote: post #12

This is still a bit insane to me. If I understand correct, you have to fill a form with a justification why you object, and then Meta will decide if you can be removed from the detailed data collection ? Privacy is a basic human right, and the strawman argument of "Well don't just use their services then" is ridiculous with their influence. Also them touting to "connected the world" When in reality is "connecting to…

There is no right to privacy, you either have it, or you don't. You either stay inside or go out, dress or stay nude, play with data collecting company products or dont. You may build a whole elaborate burocrazy to keep your "rights" intact, but they will corrupt and be captured by financial interest as it always does over a large enough timeline and all you will have is the illusion of privacy accompanied by the inc…

The world isn't black and white, though. You simply don't always get these options.

Re: Meta wants EU users to apply for permission to opt out of data collection

#146

Post by piaste »

scrollaway wrote: post #130
xorfish wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is the case, but banning it just for a few weeks will change that without much disruption. Most people are aware that Signal exist and switch the moment WhatsApp stops working.

This is some bubble heavy wishful thinking. Last time WhatsApp was down for just a few hours it made international news.

That was unexpected and unannounced. Saying "WhatsApp will go offline from the 1st of next month" would be very different.

Especially because WhatsApp _uses phone numbers as identifiers_. Switching to Signal or Telegram, which also use phone numbers, would be completely feasible: recreating the same groups would be the biggest annoyance, but you have all your contacts as soon as they install the app.

People will of course be very bothered by losing their chat histories (can you decrypt the backups it creates in Google Drive?), but it won't be an actual show-stopper. And it will teach a valuable lesson on relying on cloud.

Re: Meta wants EU users to apply for permission to opt out of data collection

#147

Post by scrollaway »

piaste wrote: post #146
scrollaway wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is some bubble heavy wishful thinking. Last time WhatsApp was down for just a few hours it made international news.

That was unexpected and unannounced. Saying "WhatsApp will go offline from the 1st of next month" would be very different. Especially because WhatsApp _uses phone numbers as identifiers_. Switching to Signal or Telegram, which also use phone numbers, would be completely feasible: recreating the same groups would be the biggest annoyance, but you have all your contacts as soon as they install the app. People will of c…

… how disconnected from reality must you be to think this is an okay thing to impose on hundreds of millions of people who rely on a specific communication channel to talk to their loved ones? "Oh they'll figure it out and install another app" -- wtf?

I agree it's not great that this is all controlled by Meta but this is what it is now. It will take a long time, or some heavy nationalization, to fix the situation. This mentality of "let's break it and people will figure their shit out" is i.n.s.a.n.e.. You know that "move fast and break things" is a BAD thing when you're affecting the lives of so many, right?

Re: Meta wants EU users to apply for permission to opt out of data collection

#148

Post by bilekas »

pibechorro wrote: post #144
bilekas wrote: post #12

This is still a bit insane to me. If I understand correct, you have to fill a form with a justification why you object, and then Meta will decide if you can be removed from the detailed data collection ? Privacy is a basic human right, and the strawman argument of "Well don't just use their services then" is ridiculous with their influence. Also them touting to "connected the world" When in reality is "connecting to…

There is no right to privacy, you either have it, or you don't. You either stay inside or go out, dress or stay nude, play with data collecting company products or dont. You may build a whole elaborate burocrazy to keep your "rights" intact, but they will corrupt and be captured by financial interest as it always does over a large enough timeline and all you will have is the illusion of privacy accompanied by the inc…

In the EU it is a human right.

> The right to privacy or private life is enshrined in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights

https://edps.europa.eu/data-protection/data-protection_en#:~....

The violations of these are not the responsibility of the victim. In this case they are the responsibility of Meta.

You seem to be talking about it more in line with if it was a privilege and not a right. Consider a passport, its a privilege and indeed not a right to get one. So you need to seek it out.

Rights however are not sought out, or require some kind of process to achieve them. They're available from birth.

Re: Meta wants EU users to apply for permission to opt out of data collection

#149

Post by mrits »

gman83 wrote: post #22
bilekas wrote: post #12

This is still a bit insane to me. If I understand correct, you have to fill a form with a justification why you object, and then Meta will decide if you can be removed from the detailed data collection ? Privacy is a basic human right, and the strawman argument of "Well don't just use their services then" is ridiculous with their influence. Also them touting to "connected the world" When in reality is "connecting to…

In terms of Facebook where I live, "Well don't just use their services then" is simply impossible. Almost all of my kids' sports activities and parent groups are on WhatsApp, I have to use it.

That doesn't sound impossible. Your kids don't even have to play sports. We act like privacy is that important to us but then we go ahead and do things like this.

I'm not on Meta side on this but I actually don't use a lot of services that I'd like to and have real inconveniences because a certain level of privacy is actually important to me.

Re: Meta wants EU users to apply for permission to opt out of data collection

#150

Post by erehweb »

closewith wrote: post #133
pessimizer wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just rationalizing FOMO. Of course you don't know the things you don't know.

Yes, I continue to use WhatsApp because I have fear of missing out. Missing out on conversations from my extended family, friends (only about 1/4 use Signal and all groups are on WhatsApp), work (the Health Service in Ireland literally runs on WhatsApp), voluntary undertakings (all of which are organised on WhatsApp), organising stuff for the kids (again all on WhatsApp). So it's a valid fear based on the reality in…

Interested in a bit more context re Ireland Health Service - how does this work with older people / those in remote areas?
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