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AI-enhanced development makes me more ambitious with my projects

simonwillison.net

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Re: AI-enhanced development makes me more ambitious with my projects

#181
post #6

@Simon, I love this. And one day, in the not too distant future, a few old wizened graybeards, like you and I and the other folks on this site who have been writing code from scratch for 20 years, will be the magicians who walk the earth among mere mortals who only learned to code with the assistance of ChatGPT. We will be the ones with the preattentive syntax parsing in our brains that let us simply see basic syntax…

I’m thinking of things like the invention of the automobile, typewriters, calculators, even writing. Before those were invented people did things very differently - they walked or rode a horse, wrote manually, used slide rules or basic arithmetic algorithms like long division, memorized things and persisted them through story telling rather than persisting them in writing.

People are still actively acquiring the knowledge to do things the old fashioned way in those areas, a hundred or even thousands (for writing) of years later. But typically they only do it if they need to or find it interesting.

It’s hard for me to think of any technological advance (outside entertainment) that actually caused a mean regression in peoples’ effectiveness, or for people as a whole to completely stop acquiring the skills of doing something the old way to deleterious effects. Like, has there been any invention that was so easy to use that people got worse at the task the tool was invented for? In aggregate it may happen if the tool greatly reduces barriers (like training, experience, or study) to entry, but I kind of doubt it happens for specialists.

Note by effectiveness I mean the general task, not the specific skill that may have become obsolete. I’m not effective at all with a slide rule but I have a Python shell, the internet, and hardware capable of floating point operations.

Re: AI-enhanced development makes me more ambitious with my projects

#182
The recent news and hype around AI motivated me to create a project on my personal computer with limited resources, using minimal code[0] to combine ChatGPT[1] with computer vision. This efficiently extracts structured data from virtually all websites I visit regularly, even though the resulting text may be somewhat poorly formatted. Despite the text's imperfections, ChatGPT is still able to provide me with summaries and insights. For instance, it can compare prices from various e-commerce sites, detect discounts and different payment methods, analyze soccer match results, and even generate humorous morning news summaries based on the top headlines in spanish!.

However, the recent "letter of warning against AI" penned by Elon Musk and other influential individuals has led me to question their motives. I suspect they may be losing the competitive edge they once had, as users can now effortlessly obtain information in ways that were previously unattainable. It's possible they are seeking to lobby for new laws that restrict this kind of data extraction. With such simplicity, I can envision a future where people no longer need to browse web pages, ultimately making ads and the whole business of treating your users like crap irrelevant.

[0] 10 lines to screenshot with puppeteer, tesseract to OCR and a clustering algorithm, add to this whisper and a nanotts to get an enhanced Unix philosophy+AI experience

[1] Im pretty sure i can use low resource models to do the summaries and insights, any recommendations?

* edit,im pretty sure that could have done this PoC years ago without GPT.

Re: AI-enhanced development makes me more ambitious with my projects

#183
post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are sort of ignoring the bias in your own AI extremist prediction. People who have decided to go all in in learning an interpreted language like Perl or even PHP, had to continuously also learn react, js, ruby,... and gazillions of other languages and frameworks to remain in business over the last two decades. While people who invested in learning C, Java or SQL have as much healthy opportunities to pursue today…

There are no perl jobs.

I almost took one a little more than a year ago, and I wasn't even looking for one...

Re: AI-enhanced development makes me more ambitious with my projects

#184
post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you know it is even close to correct? When I’ve asked it for code, it has been subtly wrong, or worse, correct but missing important edge cases that it doesn’t even seem to be aware of.

I wonder why people say stuff like this. Are people writing code then just blindly shipping it to production? The process goes; 1. Write some code 2. Get AI assistance with some part 3. Check it's right, make changes 4. Write tests 5. Put up for code review 6. CI runs checks 7. Release Candidate 8. Release Testing There are many, many chances to catch errors. If you don't have the above in place, i'd focus on that fi…

> Are people writing code then just blindly shipping it to production?

Of course they do.

Ship fast, break things, look cool, cash out, leave someone else to fix the mess you have created, it's the new black.

Re: AI-enhanced development makes me more ambitious with my projects

#185
post #6

@Simon, I love this. And one day, in the not too distant future, a few old wizened graybeards, like you and I and the other folks on this site who have been writing code from scratch for 20 years, will be the magicians who walk the earth among mere mortals who only learned to code with the assistance of ChatGPT. We will be the ones with the preattentive syntax parsing in our brains that let us simply see basic syntax…

That would be nice for us, but it's unlikely. Knowing the subtlelties of memory management in the 80' didn't help the Ruby coders to create RoR and run Basecamp, or the Python coders to create Django and run the Washington Post. People jumped at ORM, CSS frameworks and JS wrappers, and won the day because they traded memory and CPU for what the user wanted. The new generation will do the same. They will figure out ho…

"Teenage" lol.

I have not stopped messing with Stable Diffusion and llms for like 7 months now and I've been a software engineer for 20 years. I use copilot and chatgpt and my own brain and have released two compiled python apps on itch ( first real apps I've ever built and released from the ground up on my own) - both are ai tools, one for stable diffusion one for flan-t5. I'll be releasing a unity solitaire game soon as well, and ive been training my own models.

This is the most fun I've had creating things since I started programming.

Re: AI-enhanced development makes me more ambitious with my projects

#186
I can take care of the coding part - after all that's where the fun is.

What usually drains most of my energy, as someone in the JS ecosystem, is the sheer volume of modules I need to sift through to find one that does what I want.

The other day I wanted to find a library for handling zlib in the browser - eventually I stumbled on `pako`, which is great.

Seeing this post I asked ChatGPT a somewhat vague question, namely: "What is the best npm module to handle zlib compression?"

It told me about the built-in zlib module, but the last paragraph had this:

"There are also other npm modules available that provide additional functionality or a different interface for handling zlib compression, such as pako and node-zopfli, but for basic compression and decompression using the zlib library, the built-in zlib module should suffice."

Now I feel dumb that I haven't used it for this purpose earlier.

Re: AI-enhanced development makes me more ambitious with my projects

#187
I've had ideas for web apps that I've been wanting to build for ages, but my coding skills are nowhere near good enough.

Last night I sat down with ChatGPT and within a few hours we'd built the foundations of a fully functional app.

It's a fascinating process – it often leaves out vital information or doesn't get things quite right and it's obvious it's writing the most likely code rather than something written specifically, but it provides enough to get me 80% there so I can finish up the rest. Felt like collaborating with a forgetful, distracted genius.

Re: AI-enhanced development makes me more ambitious with my projects

#188
100% this.

I just used GPT-4 to help build an analytics dashboard using ChartJS. There's so many settings in ChartJS, it would have taken me a week to StackOverflow / Google how to get my charts how I'd like them - it took me a day with GPT-4. I could just ask it anything and it would help no problem. Any buggy code it produced, I'd just copy and paste the error message and it would provide a fix.

The day before I built a basic version of Stripe Radar: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35323278

Coding with AI has made me more excited to build than ever before after 10+years of programming.

Re: AI-enhanced development makes me more ambitious with my projects

#189
post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having spent a lot of time with GPT-4 recently, it's possible the new generation will not have the same issues we did. For example they can write some code and say, "adjust for best practice". Then "explain why needs to be " Oh this is called , give me an example of it. Give me another example. Give me another example. Give me use cases where this would be better. Give me a short story where it was done my way but it…

> Then "explain why needs to be " It would be nice, but until there's a breakthrough on having LLMs / other models generate, maintain and walk the user through a representation of their reasoning, these explanations are likely no more reliable than a random StackOverflow answer - except without the benefit of other users scoring / picking holes in the answer

Have you tried it yet? It is significantly better than a stackoverflow answer. I've been using copilot since release and have now integrated chatgpt into that workflow (thankfully copilot using chatgpt 4 and some tricks I figured out to treat copilot more like a chat bot are making it so I can avoid the chatgpt browser).

Re: AI-enhanced development makes me more ambitious with my projects

#190
This is one of the few times I've read a post about using GPT for dev work that has actually made a somewhat convincing argument.

In my day job, there's been various attempts to use GPT to speed up some work, which has generally resulted in me having to fix "confidently incorrect" code. The outputs usually about half right when its usable.

Using an LLM to basically auto complete trivial bits of code that are "just typing" but usually require a referral to the docs is probably the optimal middle ground for productivity - so time can be spent creatively solving the actual problems.

I'll have to experiment with it further - have it emit all the boilerplate for something, do the fun parts myself, then check for correctness might well be the workflow best suited to GPT.

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