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Scratch is the world’s largest coding community for children

scratch.mit.edu

281–290 of 397 posts

Re: Scratch is the world’s largest coding community for children

#281
post #83

Full disclosure: Principal Software Engineer here on the Scratch backend... Scratch is not built to be a "teach your kid programming languages" system, it is based on the work and ideas of the Life Long Kindergarten group at the MIT Media Lab (the director of this group is Professor Mitch Resnick, the LEGO, Papert Professor of Learning Research). The Papert part is where the term Mindstorms comes from ( https://www.a…

Wow. Thanks for posting! I’m curious of your thoughts on other visual programming languages. Specifically LabVIEW. My first job out of college was at NI where they heavily use LabVIEW. Every engineer in my cohort thought that paradigm was going to take off and over a decade later, it clearly hasn’t. One large factor is cost and proprietary tech, but I’m surprised few outside of the hardware testing world even know su…

Just some pretext, I am quite experienced in LabView.

One of the major issues with visual languages is not being able to find the right chunk. Yes there is a search feature, but if you don't know the right word to search you are doomed. In my time as a undergrad research assistant I was pumping out complex LabView code and VI's to control whole experiments. But I still would run into problems where I couldnt for the life of me find the block I needed. The most visceral of these was converting something like a double to single or vice versa. I went hunting for the correct block to do the conversion, which would take barely a line of code to do in C++ (the language I knew at the time), and it wasn't in the 'convert' subset of blocks.. I had this vast code that worked, but I couldn't get the last part of the data path completed because this missing stupid block that converts... Took me like an hour to eventually find it after trying everything including Google and NI's documents...

So stuff like that would be the main reason I think they never took off. If you have to hunt and peck trying to find the right box, instead of innately knowing the syntax to do something like converting. Well it just isnt practical, it's easier to lookup in a reference text for the language than to hunt in NI's closed garden crazy house.

That all said and done, LabView had some of the best Connectivity to lab hardware. Over a decade ago you could connect 2-5 devices from 1985-2000 through GPIB, and into your code assuming you had VI's (sometimes you have to make them yourself). It's hard to state how amazing that was, being Able to automate the control and data acquisition of hardware made during the infancy of the internet for research. It also made you quite valuable in your PI's eyes. So unlike most people I know from that era of my STEM career, I was one of the ones that said 'yeah I hate LabView .. . But man is it good at what it does." ... From conversation with grad students these days, it sounds like the libraries in python caught up on that front.

Re: Scratch is the world’s largest coding community for children

#282

My 8 yo loves Scratch. She's made over 30 apps with it and has had a great time. However, now that she's reached the limits of what it can do, I have been frustrated that there isn't a natural place for her to graduate to. And Scratch does get really limited quickly. There are unofficial forks like SheepTester's one which let you drop JavaScript into Scratch projects, but they're not easy to use. We've failed a few t…

What about netlogo?

Re: Scratch is the world’s largest coding community for children

#283
post #83

Full disclosure: Principal Software Engineer here on the Scratch backend... Scratch is not built to be a "teach your kid programming languages" system, it is based on the work and ideas of the Life Long Kindergarten group at the MIT Media Lab (the director of this group is Professor Mitch Resnick, the LEGO, Papert Professor of Learning Research). The Papert part is where the term Mindstorms comes from ( https://www.a…

Wow. Thanks for posting! I’m curious of your thoughts on other visual programming languages. Specifically LabVIEW. My first job out of college was at NI where they heavily use LabVIEW. Every engineer in my cohort thought that paradigm was going to take off and over a decade later, it clearly hasn’t. One large factor is cost and proprietary tech, but I’m surprised few outside of the hardware testing world even know su…

Version control and diffing (programmatically or mentally) is a major stumbling block. The only graphical language I know of that doesn't suffer from this issue is PLC ladder logic, where the visual representation is forced and it's easy to programmatically show the differences between two versions of a given program, or mentally know exactly what given logic will look like. Pretty much everything else is miserable to compare code in, and this is especially painful when you're initially learning and the examples you're referencing are unhinged LabVIEW spaghetti with no real way to make it any more pleasant to read.

Re: Scratch is the world’s largest coding community for children

#284

My 8 yo loves Scratch. She's made over 30 apps with it and has had a great time. However, now that she's reached the limits of what it can do, I have been frustrated that there isn't a natural place for her to graduate to. And Scratch does get really limited quickly. There are unofficial forks like SheepTester's one which let you drop JavaScript into Scratch projects, but they're not easy to use. We've failed a few t…

If you want to stay in the browser check out cables[1]. If you are on windows and OK with a desktop app have a look at vvvv[2].

[1] https://cables.gl

[2] https://visualprogramming.net

Re: Scratch is the world’s largest coding community for children

#285
post #83

Full disclosure: Principal Software Engineer here on the Scratch backend... Scratch is not built to be a "teach your kid programming languages" system, it is based on the work and ideas of the Life Long Kindergarten group at the MIT Media Lab (the director of this group is Professor Mitch Resnick, the LEGO, Papert Professor of Learning Research). The Papert part is where the term Mindstorms comes from ( https://www.a…

Is there any appetite to support more serious programming with Scratch? I’ve created a toy or two but would love to do more. The start/stop flags are the main blocker for me. If there was an option to start automatically and run forever (or until a break) I think I’d do a lot more experimenting with it.

I volunteer for a code club, so maybe I can help you out. I’m not sure what I’m missing in your issue, but Scratch scripts run continuously once the green flag is clicked. You can stop execution programmatically using the stop() block.

https://en.scratch-wiki.info/wiki/Stop_()_(block)

Re: Scratch is the world’s largest coding community for children

#286

My son, 17, learned to program in Scratch, and wrote a lot of games in it. Since then he has learned Python, Lua (in which he wrote a space invaders), and Java in both high school and during the summer at Cornell. He can write in these languages, but the problem is, he thinks in Scratch. He always goes back to write things in Scratch. In Scratch he has written a number of ray tracing and path tracing renderers which…

That is utterly fascinating. From his pov, is it a problem, or only from yours?

I'd like him to make a more firm next step. He sometimes brings up some of the difficulties he has expressing things that would be simple in another language. I point this out. He understands that but still prefers to work in Scratch. One factor may be that he has a social network on Scratch.

Re: Scratch is the world’s largest coding community for children

#287
post #50

Folks here who used scratch with their kids, what is the next step after scratch? How did you introduce a language/platform to your kid? I have introduced python and my kid is able to pick it up, but am unable to come up with projects that sustain interest. It feels dry without UI and one shouldn't be doing web dev with python too. So what is the progression for python and kids?

At the Code Club for which I volunteer the next step is Python. We use the Raspberry Pi projects[1] which use the Tinker[2] repl.

[1] https://projects.raspberrypi.org/en/projects/about-me

[2] https://trinket.io/

Re: Scratch is the world’s largest coding community for children

#288
post #83

Full disclosure: Principal Software Engineer here on the Scratch backend... Scratch is not built to be a "teach your kid programming languages" system, it is based on the work and ideas of the Life Long Kindergarten group at the MIT Media Lab (the director of this group is Professor Mitch Resnick, the LEGO, Papert Professor of Learning Research). The Papert part is where the term Mindstorms comes from ( https://www.a…

First of all, let me tell you that scratch is a wonderful project. I have only one, but pretty important criticism: The tutorials that are packages with the installer use screenshots that are not translated and thus are pretty much worthless unless your kids speak English. I was pretty hyped on scratch, but this pretty much prevents self directed learning from happening.

Re: Scratch is the world’s largest coding community for children

#289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>the fact that I could take someone else's source code and change it to my will felt like a superpower. The ability to go and tell your computer to do something and then see the computer do it is, in a word, mindblowing. I know it was mindblowing for childhood me. My experiences with programming were HTML4.01 and CSS2, PHP, Ruby, and some more abstract forms of "programming" (RPG Maker!), and they all gave me a healt…

RPG Maker was great, I've been meaning to go back and build something with it again now that I have actual developer skills.

Not everyday I come across a fellow RPG Maker around these parts. I hail from the so-called golden age of RPG Maker (RM2K and RM2K3), those were the days I tell you.

Re: Scratch is the world’s largest coding community for children

#290
post #142

My 9 year old daughter surprised me yesterday with her little game made with Scratch. I was impressed. I surprised her back when I did user-testing haha. She discovered the fun world of bugs and user's doing things they shouldn't!

I remember when I was young, I made a scratch game that was just "Guess the secret letter". Basically "if l pressed, you win, else you lose". Except my 10 year old brain did not understand what else meant. So I created, over the course of hours, a different if statement for every key on the keyboard that all ended with "you lose". Was a shock to me when my parents, after seeing my code for the first time, told me wha…

I had a similar experience as a kid when making a game in BASIC. The player could choose their difficulty level, with higher difficulty levels having less obstacles for the player to hide behind. My code to calculate the number of obstacles looked like 'if diff=10 then obs=1; if diff=9 then obs=2; if diff=8 then obs=3; etc.' My dad looked at it, deleted all ten lines, replaced them with 'obs = 11 - diff', and my jaw hit the floor.
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