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Early Remote Work Impacts on Family Formation

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Re: Early Remote Work Impacts on Family Formation

#151

Post by raydev »

tyoma wrote: post #70
jossclimb wrote: post #12

I have been remote for 11 years now and have two children 9 and 12. I can't imagine what it would have been like if I had spent the week out commuting between the hours of 7am to 7pm, we would have lost out on so much bonding time with their daddy being an integral part of their life. I managed to be highly productive, build a career, yet be there for bath times, tucking into bed, school plays / sports days, nursing…

I’ve also been working from home and very glad to have been there for my kids when they are young, but highly productive are not two words I’d use to describe the experience. I guess my time management and prioritization skill have improved by necessity, but the lack of uninterrupted quiet time is real.

Also went through this a few years ago. Instead of being able to end my work day at a reasonable time, I made up for the "inefficiency" by working all sorts of hours.

The tradeoff is being away from the people I love for 8-10 hours a day, and even just being present in a baby's/toddler's life is huge. I'd still stay home again.

I recommend finding a nearby coworking space. Spend 2-4 hours of the house if the chaos is too much.

Re: Early Remote Work Impacts on Family Formation

#152

Post by PuppyTailWags »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #131
brabel wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think it's a huge win for equality and family life Hm, where I live, both parents take roughly the same amount of parent leave (around 240 working days each in total - minimum 90 days for each) from work regardless of whether they work at home or anything else. That's what I would call equality.

My kids were able to breastfeed until 2 years old and ween at their pace because my wife works from home. The whole concept of women pumping and then someone else feeding their baby defrosted frozen breastmilk because they have to work is crazy. Women should have at least 1 year with their child, and if that means men need to be off for a year too, then so be it.

Men should be off an equal time as women, not as a "so be it" measure. It's crazy that we push so much of the parenting to a single parent, effectively isolating her socially and never giving her time to be an adult or speak with other adults. Yes there's breastfeeding, but the best part of formula/pumping is that the mother can go out and actually be a human being while the dad can take over the duties with the child for a full day, night, or weekend!

[edited to add: even if the mother takes up the majority of the childrearing (diapers, feeding, swaddling, talking, socializing, etc) the father should be taking up all of her previous chores, housework, social maintenance (e.g. familial obligations)!]

Re: Early Remote Work Impacts on Family Formation

#153

Post by swsieber »

_ktx2 wrote: post #141
alistairSH wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't imagine what it would have been like if I had spent the week out commuting between the hours of 7am to 7pm FWIW, I commuted through most of my son's childhood. I still made it home for those things you list. But, it did take optimizing house location/commute, etc. I certainly wasn't gone 7am-7pm. Even with 60 min of driving and 60 min for lunch, that's an 10 hour day.

> But, it did take optimizing house location/commute, etc To spell the quiet part out loud here, what you're describing is an extreme privilege in a world where homes near tech campuses often go for $1M+. New fathers aren't going to have a down payment for even $600k+. Tech at this point starts as a rich persons game which is why so many tech workers intermarry with other wealthy people. It takes two or a trust fund…

> what you're describing is an extreme privilege

No, it's not.

Working for a huge tech company _and_ doing what's described is an extreme privilege. But working for a huge tech company is a huge privilege in and of itself. And you don't have to work for one of those, at which point doing what's described can become a lot easier.

Re: Early Remote Work Impacts on Family Formation

#154

Post by balfirevic »

nextlevelwizard wrote: post #50
Thlom wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about paid parental leave, cheap child care and more flexible work schedules? I manage fine to be involved in my kids life even though I'm working from the office most of the time. Only have 20 min commute though. If I need to follow the kids to the doctor or dentist or meeting with their teacher or whatever during the work day that is no problem (I work from home most of the times when that is needed though). I…

Always need to remember that most vocal people about WFH are Americans who have hours and hours of commute time with very strict office times and just plain expectation of doing 9 to 10 hours of work per day. Taking remote days was never an issue for me and spending 15 minutes commuting to the office isn't a big deal and around these parts people always looked me funny if I was in the office past 15:00. So the expect…

> Americans who have hours and hours of commute time

Europeans, on average, have longer commutes than Americans:

https://transportgeography.org/contents/chapter8/urban-trans...

Re: Early Remote Work Impacts on Family Formation

#155

Post by txsoftwaredev »

_ktx2 wrote: post #141
alistairSH wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't imagine what it would have been like if I had spent the week out commuting between the hours of 7am to 7pm FWIW, I commuted through most of my son's childhood. I still made it home for those things you list. But, it did take optimizing house location/commute, etc. I certainly wasn't gone 7am-7pm. Even with 60 min of driving and 60 min for lunch, that's an 10 hour day.

> But, it did take optimizing house location/commute, etc To spell the quiet part out loud here, what you're describing is an extreme privilege in a world where homes near tech campuses often go for $1M+. New fathers aren't going to have a down payment for even $600k+. Tech at this point starts as a rich persons game which is why so many tech workers intermarry with other wealthy people. It takes two or a trust fund…

I lived in a home no where near that expensive in DFW and commuted 45-60 mins each way when my kids were young. Plenty of places you can work in tech and not own a million dollar house. Even still so today.

Re: Early Remote Work Impacts on Family Formation

#156

Post by organsnyder »

xyzzy123 wrote: post #11
iso1631 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Once they were old enough they didn't need constant supervision. Trying to work from home with a toddler was a nightmare. That's odd, I had no problem with working from home with toddlers, but I wasn't trying to do two full time jobs, on any given day either I was dedicated to looking after the kids or my partner was. Looking after a toddler is a full time job.

Setup matters a lot, eg if you have a separate room to go to or a standalone unit in the back yard. Kids are "sticky" (once they get into your office for any reason it can be difficult to get them out again). Number of kids matters, their ages matter, their needs matter, sometimes they "get loose" while carer is busy with one (e.g. putting to sleep), and carers need breaks too. For my particular situation, I can get…

> Setup matters a lot, eg if you have a separate room to go to or a standalone unit in the back yard.

We built a garage with an accessory dwelling unit (ADU) that I use for my office. My kids are aged 5-12, and It's great to have some separation. Though now two of the kids have their own computers in the room next to my office, so I've had to teach them that a Minecraft "emergency" doesn't mean they can interrupt me working.

Re: Early Remote Work Impacts on Family Formation

#157

Post by WWLink »

swsieber wrote: post #153
_ktx2 wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But, it did take optimizing house location/commute, etc To spell the quiet part out loud here, what you're describing is an extreme privilege in a world where homes near tech campuses often go for $1M+. New fathers aren't going to have a down payment for even $600k+. Tech at this point starts as a rich persons game which is why so many tech workers intermarry with other wealthy people. It takes two or a trust fund…

> what you're describing is an extreme privilege No, it's not. Working for a huge tech company _and_ doing what's described is an extreme privilege. But working for a huge tech company is a huge privilege in and of itself. And you don't have to work for one of those, at which point doing what's described can become a lot easier.

Yes it is and you're sounding like a condescending asshole by denying it.

Re: Early Remote Work Impacts on Family Formation

#158

Post by gedy »

miroljub wrote: post #142
gedy wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But not like its sound proof. And sometimes your partner just needs help. And other times your kids stop by and ask for something. You can say you’re “at work” as much as you want, but you’re still at home. Sounds exactly like issues at our open offices too?

The difference is, at the office it's part of your job, at home it is not. Helping your teammates is part of your job, helping your wife is not. And I bet you don't clock out to make a quick 5-minute break to help your wife 10 times a day ;)

If you are on salary - who cares? We aren't paid by the hour.

Re: Early Remote Work Impacts on Family Formation

#159

Post by dahfizz »

_ktx2 wrote: post #141
alistairSH wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't imagine what it would have been like if I had spent the week out commuting between the hours of 7am to 7pm FWIW, I commuted through most of my son's childhood. I still made it home for those things you list. But, it did take optimizing house location/commute, etc. I certainly wasn't gone 7am-7pm. Even with 60 min of driving and 60 min for lunch, that's an 10 hour day.

> But, it did take optimizing house location/commute, etc To spell the quiet part out loud here, what you're describing is an extreme privilege in a world where homes near tech campuses often go for $1M+. New fathers aren't going to have a down payment for even $600k+. Tech at this point starts as a rich persons game which is why so many tech workers intermarry with other wealthy people. It takes two or a trust fund…

The average commute in the USA is under 30 minutes. I have no idea where this idea that everyone commutes 2 hours came from, but its completely ridiculous.

https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2021/one-way-...

Re: Early Remote Work Impacts on Family Formation

#160

Post by dahfizz »

WWLink wrote: post #157
swsieber wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what you're describing is an extreme privilege No, it's not. Working for a huge tech company _and_ doing what's described is an extreme privilege. But working for a huge tech company is a huge privilege in and of itself. And you don't have to work for one of those, at which point doing what's described can become a lot easier.

Yes it is and you're sounding like a condescending asshole by denying it.

The majority of Americans commute less than 30 minutes. How is something the majority of people have "extreme privilege"? The idea of a 2 hour commute each way to be gone from 7am to 7pm is a complete fantasy.
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